The Supermarket Challenge

[tgilbert]

Hi all. This may have been touched on in different topics, but doesn't seem to have been brought together in one place for comparison. I am usually a brew shop brewer (Morgans kits, Brewmaster(?) liquids, etc), but I have decided to have a crack at what lives on my supermarket shelf and see what results I can get from it.

I am reasonable well kitted out with a fermenter, temp control brewing fridge, dual keg serving fridge, CO2, etc. Maybe better set up than the average supermarket brewer, but not very experienced yet. I've done about 8 brews so far with pretty good results (so my friends tell me anyway). I find it all pretty drinkable after a month or so anyway (or after 4-5 glasses too).

My first test is a Cascade Golden Harvest (not really a first time as this was one I did when my kit was new and I was even newer). Using Coopers Brew Enhancer No 2 for this brew and the standard yeast. Brewed for 7 days at 25 degrees or so in the bar (20 litre mix). SG came down to about 1004 which is pretty good. Came off the fermenter very clean and was conditioned for a week at 1 degree C in the serving fridge (in a corny keg), then decanted into another keg to eliminate any residue and is now on the gas at 5 psi for two days. Had a taste this afternoon and it's a bit wishy-washy at the moment, but strong as. Hope it matures into something nice.

Second test is a Coopers Cerveza, again using Coopers Brew Enhancer No 2 and the standard yeast. This one is brewing in the brew fridge at 20 degrees C (something I read here somewhere I think) and only went into the fermenter yesterday. I will probably let this one bubble for two weeks before decanting it to a keg for cold conditioning at 1 degree, probably again for two weeks at this stage, then not sure. I might bottle it. Don't really know yet.

So who cooks supermarket tins? And what results do you get? Are there any special tips to get the best results out of these kits?

By the way, my best brews so far were Morgans Queensland Bitter from a tin; James Squires Golden Ale from liquid wort; an Irish Red from a liquid wort with a hops bag; and a Saaz Pilsener from a tin using saflager yeast and cooked at 12 degrees.

 

[0M39A]

if you have a temp controlled fridge, why would you ever ferment an ale at 25C?

 

[tgilbert]

if you have a temp controlled fridge, why would you ever ferment an ale at 25C?

Ahh, well that would be because the instructions said it was a 24-28 degree brewing kit. As I said, I am not that experienced yet, still experimenting.

By the way, my Saaz Pilsener above was made with a SafAle yeast, not a SafLager of course.

Tony

 

[0M39A]

no safale yeasts would ferment at 12C, it would have to have been a saflager yeast to work at those temps.

step 1. of brewing from cans: throw away the instructions, and brew to how we tell you here

doing well not using any table sugar with your brews. the next improvement you could make (aside from sorting out your temperatures) would be to move away from the "brew enhancers" and just buy plain old malt from your homebrew store.

I assume you have a good cleaning regime already?

 

[gerald]

ignore all instructions generally. its what i learnt here very quickly. most of those tins recomend temperatures higher than desirable to make people think it is easier than it is. if you read the instructions and it says, 28 degrees and a bag of sugar is all you need, well thats a piece of piss as they say. but keeping it at 18 or 19 (optimal for ales) well thats a bit tougher and sugar shouldnt make up a large quantity of your fermentables. anyway...

yeah, ignore instructions, read here more.

ales - 18-20*C

havnt done heaps of supermarket kits myself, but i did a 2can one with coopers lager tin and coopers dark ale and a small amount of dex. its very hoppy but is calming down after 2 or so months. not heaps full bodied but its ok. definitly worth the extra few bucks to shop at a HBS.

cyuzzzz
gerald

 

[Sammus]

Another note, the yeast that comes with kits is usually designed to work best at a regular australian room temperature ie 20-25C or whatever. Only obey the 18-20C law if you are buying an aftermarket yeast that is designed for that temperature range.

 

[tgilbert]

Yes, I do keep cleanliness next to godliness in beer making.

Now this may sound like a silly question, but how much difference is a good yeast really going to make to a supermarket brew kit? A good yeast from a HBS can cost almost as much as the kit.

And how low can you go? As I said, my Cerveza is using kit yeast and is bubbling away merrily at 20 degrees in the fridge. I guess its range is about 19-28?

Sorry if these sound like ignorant questions, but as I said I am still experimenting to figure out what works and what doesn't.

 

[goomboogo]

TonyG,

Your questions have nothing to do with ignorance, they are merely questions. After eight brews you should have questions. After eight hundred brews you should still have questions.

In response to your question regarding fermentation temperatures, the thing to remember is the temperatures often refered to as optimal are precisely that, optimal. This doesn't mean that they won't work (i.e ferment) at higher temperatures. An Ale yeast that has an optimal range of 16c - 20c will ferment at 28c to 30c but there will be consequences. You will have alcohol in your beer but your beer will not taste like reasonable beer. It will taste like shite.

As Sammus alluded to in an earlier post, the ideal operating temperature for a yeast depends on the strain of yeast. So it's a case of knowing the product you choose to use. Maybe someone here knows the strain of yeast used in the Coopers kits and this may help you in the future.

 

[braufrau]

My 2 tips ...

1) Check the date on the supermarket kits. Don't use anything older than 6 months. Coopers have a manufactured date .. day/year eg 290/07
Don't know about cascade. If you get a taste like biro ink, the kit was too old.

2) Culture coopers yeast. Since you baulk at the cost of HBS yeast, you can get coopers yeast for free-ish. There are instructions on the wiki. Its a really good yeast, IMO, and will make your pale ales etc. taste more authentic.

 

[hanzie]

Hi TonyG

I have only tried one Supermarket brew. It was a Coopers pale ale with 500g dex and 500g Coopers dry malt all from coles. I threw the yeast away and used the yeast out of 2 bottles of Coopers pale ale. 6 weeks later and it is tasting great, exactly what I was aiming for.

I also have a Dragon stout clone in my fermenter and more than half of the fermentables come from coles.

See I can sneak it in the shopping so SWMBO dont complain about how much I spend at my local HBS. everyone wins.

 

[braufrau]

I've made a nice stout from the supermarket in the past.
But not as nice as the stout HWMBO is drinking now which is almost an allgrain. I think I used 900g of extract.
But I was thinking it might be possible to get a similar brew with two pale ale kits and the same crystal/chocolate malt/roast barley
as I used for my partial.
And some sugar.
Hmmm. haven't got the recipe here, have to wait 'til I get home.

 

[tgilbert]

I have only tried one Supermarket brew. It was a Coopers pale ale with 500g dex and 500g Coopers dry malt all from coles. I threw the yeast away and used the yeast out of 2 bottles of Coopers pale ale. 6 weeks later and it is tasting great, exactly what I was aiming for.

I also have a Dragon stout clone in my fermenter and more than half of the fermentables come from coles.

See I can sneak it in the shopping so SWMBO dont complain about how much I spend at my local HBS. everyone wins.

Hi Hanzie, yes I also can sneak the kits into the shopping trolley without impertinent questions (like "didn't you buy beer last week/month/year") which is why I'm interested in supermarket kits at the moment.

Can you explain what you mean about using the yeast out of two bottles of pale ale? How do you do that?

I've been to a demo of using and re-using liquid yeasts, which seems like a great idea. But I don't think I brew enough yet to make that sustainable.

Can I extract the yeast out of another home brew? For example, if I did say a liquid wort Golden Ale (which I do love) with a HBS SafAle yeast, could I extract and re-use that yeast in a supermarket brew?

Tony

PS: It's not that I baulk at the cost of HBS yeasts, just have reservations about spending more on the yeast than the wort!

 

[microbe]

Do a search for "harvesting" or "culturing" yeast and that should give you some answers - probably more questions too...

Cheers,

microbe

 

[Hutch]

It's not that I baulk at the cost of HBS yeasts, just have reservations about spending more on the yeast than the wort!

I don't know how much your HBS charges for yeast, but it certainly shouldn't be anywhere near as much as the cost of wort. CraftBrewer (site sponsor) sells yeast for $3-4, and has an excellent reputation (vacuum sealed, etc.).

Yeast and temperature control are the 2 biggest improvements you can make to your basic kit, having already ditched the sugar in favour of LME or brew-enhancer.

Even amongst dry yeasts, there is a large variety in results. In my opinion the SafAle S-04 is particularly objectionable, with much better results coming from Safale US-05 or Danstar Nottingham for Ales, or Safale S-189 for lagers. If you do a bulk purchase from said sponsor, the shipping cost would be negligable.

If you want to take the next step, start re-using your yeasts from the fermenter slurry. They last for several months in a fridge, and the practice makes it affordable to use liquid yeast from the HBS (this practice demands a very strict sterilisation regime)

At the end of the day, you want to brew the best beer you can from the Supermarket kits, which from the outset means ditching the kit instructions and kit yeast. Only then can you make a real comparison of the quality of each kit.

It's surprising how nice a beer you can actually make from a fresh kit, with good yeast, temperature control and malt/dex. Have fun experimenting!

 

[tcraig20]

Talking about supermarkets - anyone know if woolworths is open today? I want to go pick up some stuff but dont want to walk all the way there if they arent open.

Edit: sorry to go OT

 

[Tim F]

Talking about supermarkets - anyone know if woolworths is open today? I want to go pick up some stuff but dont want to walk all the way there if they arent open.

Edit: sorry to go OT

Opening hours for your local woolies can all be found on their website

 

[microbe]

woolworths.com.au IIRC Sunday trading hours

Cheers,

microbe

Edit - beaten... damn!

 

[tcraig20]

Opening hours for your local woolies can all be found on their website

Bugger me. Its amazing the difference a day makes. I spent 20 minutes yesterday looking for that before I gave up, and just found it in 20 seconds today. Thanks guys.

 

[Flipper79]

TonyG,

as far as supermaket kits go I have only brewed 2, a tooheys special lager and a tooheys special draft.

I didn't do anything fancy with them, rehydrated the yeast in warm water for an hour before pitching, and fermented at 22deg for 13days with a coopers beer enhancer sugar pack (I think its around 500g dex 250g malt 250g corn syrup), and a table spoon of sugar in each bottle.

Before anyone flames me on my methods this was about 7 months ago and my methods are vastly different now...

My first impresions were that the beer was shit, and I swore that I would never buy another one of these kits but I left 6 tallies in the fridge for months on end and they seemed to get better and better as the months passed. I just drank the last one the other week after it had been in the fridge for about 5 months and it was deffinitly one of the better beers I have brewed.

So...supermarket kits might be ok but even if they do get as good as a kit purchased from the LHBS they need months of cold conditioning to get there, my advice would be to save yourself the hassel and go straight to the LHBS and grab a morgans kit.

 

[ben.robinson]

TonyG, Interested on how your CC turns out , I tried one about a month ago with the same ingreds; and was not very good had a strong honey flavour , but far as the supermarket kits go I,ve had some mixed result (coopers lager,apa,tooheys p.LAGER, baverian lager all have not BEEN bad)