• If you have bought, sold or gained information from our Classifieds, please donate to Aussie Home Brewer and give back.

    You can become a Supporting Member or click here to donate.

The Keg Conspiracy

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Hop Me

Well-Known Member
Joined
7/6/09
Messages
72
Reaction score
0
I've heard all sorts of silly stories about 50l kegs and ownership issues. I can't see a reason that someone COULD NOT own a 50l keg. Am I right? And if so, where the hell can I get hold of one or two. I want to convert one for use when I finally make the transition over to all grain. Thanks!

Cheers
Dave
 
Here we go again.
Yes you can legally own one. You need proof of ownership. You will never be able to buy a legal keg from any of the Aussie breweries.
You may find legal ones on Ebay occasionally. The illegal ones get wiped off pretty quick.
 
Of course a person can own a 50L keg, G&G sells them, so do other retailers.

What you can't usually own legally, is a current style sankey keg that has the name of a past or present Australian brewery stamped/etched/embossed on it. The bigger breweries simply do not sell or give away their kegs, they do not allow anyone else to do so, and they dont allow defective or leaky kegs t be sold into scrap without being destroyed.

This saves them a lot of arguments - you couldn't have bought it legally off anyone... because the brewery never sold it. Ipso facto ... someone somewhere along the line, pinched it.

Occasionally they part with one -- but they do so after having filled out a certificate of transfer that includes the keg's serial number. No certificate.. not legit.

Oh there will be occasional exceptions etc - but at the end of the day, those things are worth about $150 each ... if you bought it for a hell of a lot less than that - who was the loser? and why did they allow their property to be sold for so little?


Non-current style kegs - occasional imported sankeys from defunct overseas breweries -- yep, you can buy em legit. They just cost a fair bit thats all.

TB
 
I've heard all sorts of silly stories about 50l kegs and ownership issues. I can't see a reason that someone COULD NOT own a 50l keg. Am I right? And if so, where the hell can I get hold of one or two. I want to convert one for use when I finally make the transition over to all grain. Thanks!

Cheers
Dave

Think outside the square, you might not be able to own one, you can however have one in your posesssion. It was only a few weeks ago, a local food/drinks house had gone bust, the empty kegs were left out in the hard rubbish, about 14 of them. Whats the law on hard rubbish collection. I have a keggle and no use for more, its an eye opener what is available though. Fridges are the same, bide your time their everywhere.
I do agree too a degree what others have said re the legalities, IMO I reckon there is more Greek BBQ`s, Italian tomatoe sauce kettles, more Greenie fireplaces kicking around made of CUB/TOOHEYS kegs than there are kettles for beer.
Those poor shareholders you have too feel for next time your grinding a lid off!! Go Kirin!!
 
Hi Dave, noted you're originally from the US, over there I think the SABCO kegs and others can be picked up a lot easier there from home brew stores and the like.

Here in OZ sadly it's a different story.

There are legal ones to be had but they are stupidly expensive.

KegKing sell them. But appears you need 10!
KegKing

Ebay currently stock quite a few, on castor wheels and at a crazy price:
Ebay Kegs

You can tell they're legal cos they're shiny! But shiny and new also equals expensive! So I can see your problem. We all have this issue and it is a common gripe in the homebrewing community.

On ebay the ones that display domestic brewery names get removed from sale. That is because they state they are the property of the brewery and no matter how old can be reclaimed and sold for scrap metal. I know they sell them for scrap as have tried contacting a recycler in Victoria's West to purchase one before it hits the crusher - and had no luck due to 'health and safety' concerns. They're worried you're going to try and repressurise them and won't sell them to you.

On ebay the only older kegs that seem to sell legitimately and not be removed have the names of european, UK and US breweries on the sides of them or are vintage XXXX kegs (I see these all the time and they are never removed unsure why). With the internationals I guess its because there's no one in this country hired by the overseas brewer to track down rogue kegs. And sending them overseas for scrap wouldn't make any sense.

If you're worried about legalities, then buy stock pots instead. A regular poster on here - Dommasura (beerbelly), sells a range of these as do some of the sponsors.

Hopper.

Edit- Just read Haysie's post - Yeah or you can get 'creative'!
 
Here we go again.
Yes you can legally own one. You need proof of ownership. You will never be able to buy a legal keg from any of the Aussie breweries.
You may find legal ones on Ebay occasionally. The illegal ones get wiped off pretty quick.

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Thanks for the info, though.
 
Of course a person can own a 50L keg, G&G sells them, so do other retailers.

What you can't usually own legally, is a current style sankey keg that has the name of a past or present Australian brewery stamped/etched/embossed on it. The bigger breweries simply do not sell or give away their kegs, they do not allow anyone else to do so, and they dont allow defective or leaky kegs t be sold into scrap without being destroyed.

This saves them a lot of arguments - you couldn't have bought it legally off anyone... because the brewery never sold it. Ipso facto ... someone somewhere along the line, pinched it.

Occasionally they part with one -- but they do so after having filled out a certificate of transfer that includes the keg's serial number. No certificate.. not legit.

Oh there will be occasional exceptions etc - but at the end of the day, those things are worth about $150 each ... if you bought it for a hell of a lot less than that - who was the loser? and why did they allow their property to be sold for so little?


Non-current style kegs - occasional imported sankeys from defunct overseas breweries -- yep, you can buy em legit. They just cost a fair bit thats all.

TB

Whoa! A wealth of good info, thanks Thirsty!
 
Think outside the square, you might not be able to own one, you can however have one in your posesssion. It was only a few weeks ago, a local food/drinks house had gone bust, the empty kegs were left out in the hard rubbish, about 14 of them. Whats the law on hard rubbish collection. I have a keggle and no use for more, its an eye opener what is available though. Fridges are the same, bide your time their everywhere.
I do agree too a degree what others have said re the legalities, IMO I reckon there is more Greek BBQ`s, Italian tomatoe sauce kettles, more Greenie fireplaces kicking around made of CUB/TOOHEYS kegs than there are kettles for beer.
Those poor shareholders you have too feel for next time your grinding a lid off!! Go Kirin!!

Thanks, Haysie. Yeah, I spent the last 15 years in the States. It has it's good bits, especially the craft/home brewing scene, but things are certainly picking up here. I have no real issues with taking and using something that would be rubbish anyway. Mind you, the Nanny Patrol would probably send me off to Boggo Road for 12 years while I watch murdering shite walking away with a hefty slap on the wrist. Dave
 
Hi Dave, noted you're originally from the US, over there I think the SABCO kegs and others can be picked up a lot easier there from home brew stores and the like.

Here in OZ sadly it's a different story.

There are legal ones to be had but they are stupidly expensive.

KegKing sell them. But appears you need 10!
KegKing

Ebay currently stock quite a few, on castor wheels and at a crazy price:
Ebay Kegs

You can tell they're legal cos they're shiny! But shiny and new also equals expensive! So I can see your problem. We all have this issue and it is a common gripe in the homebrewing community.

On ebay the ones that display domestic brewery names get removed from sale. That is because they state they are the property of the brewery and no matter how old can be reclaimed and sold for scrap metal. I know they sell them for scrap as have tried contacting a recycler in Victoria's West to purchase one before it hits the crusher - and had no luck due to 'health and safety' concerns. They're worried you're going to try and repressurise them and won't sell them to you.

On ebay the only older kegs that seem to sell legitimately and not be removed have the names of european, UK and US breweries on the sides of them or are vintage XXXX kegs (I see these all the time and they are never removed unsure why). With the internationals I guess its because there's no one in this country hired by the overseas brewer to track down rogue kegs. And sending them overseas for scrap wouldn't make any sense.

If you're worried about legalities, then buy stock pots instead. A regular poster on here - Dommasura (beerbelly), sells a range of these as do some of the sponsors.

Hopper.

Edit- Just read Haysie's post - Yeah or you can get 'creative'!

Yeah, might just go the way of the big brewpot. I'll stop looking, maybe one will cross my path and I'll nab it. Anyway, thanks for all that!

Cheers
Dave
 
Dave

You can own as many kegs as you like, why would anyone stop you?

You cannot buy or sell or do anything with anothers keg, such as a lion or cub keg. Kinda like a car, you dont buy a car by walking out into the street and decide which one you want parked on the street. Same for a keg that is at the back of a pub.

A few folks sell kegs, not really focused towards anything but full container imports.

Scotty
 
Think outside the square, you might not be able to own one, you can however have one in your posesssion. It was only a few weeks ago, a local food/drinks house had gone bust, the empty kegs were left out in the hard rubbish, about 14 of them. Whats the law on hard rubbish collection.


Yep, saw all those...very tempting it was LOL
 
re kegs left out for hard rubbish. its doesnt matter. if there are still owned by the brewery (ie no transfer o ownership) then they are the property of the brewery.

even if a brewery were to say loose 1000 kegs and they made a insurance claim to have them replaced. the lost kegs then become the property of the insurance company. It is their right to salvage if ever recovered. even if the kegs had been butchered the insurance company has ownership and could look at getting $ from scrap metal. unlikely but true.

I think all other aspects of the topic have been covered (esp by Thirsty), so i'll leave it there.
 
kegs left out for hard rubbish. its doesnt matter. if there are still owned by the brewery (ie no transfer o ownership) then they are the property of the brewery.
even if a brewery were to say loose 1000 kegs and they made a insurance claim to have them replaced. the lost kegs then become the property of the insurance company. It is their right to salvage if ever recovered. even if the kegs had been butchered the insurance company has ownership and could look at getting $ from scrap metal. unlikely but true.


///'s Car example is spot on. These kegs in the hard rubbish collection were still the property of the breweries in the same way that a hire car not returned by the due date and left parked in the street is not there for the taking. If the Police get involved I think that the charge is something like 'taking without permission' so regardless of how the kegs came in your possession they are stolen property and you are exposing yourself to criminal prosecution.

It is good to see the example of 1000 kegs being mentioned but the number that go missing each year is around $50,000,000 worth - and that is just for the big 3. I know this for a fact as I have had discussions with LN, CUB and Coopers.

From my perspective it is the HB community that has itself to blame for the lack of kegs for sale. :eek:

As others have said they need to sell for $150 each to cover handling etc plus the scrap value. We have offered kegs a number of times and while we get a few tyre kickers each time there seem to be no legitimate buyers when the cost of the kegs and delivery is quoted.


There are certainly sellers around if there are buyers.

Dave
 
More info here:
Kegs & Legality

Repeats a lot of what is above.

As many have said it comes down to the ethics of paying for something vs 'acquiring it'.

Found an old thread a while back (can't find it now damnit) where an AHB'er posted that they asked a cop about it and he laughed, didn't realise it was illegal to have them and commented that they're not about to start peering over fences looking for them. The cop did add that if they had the matter referred to by a brewery or venue they would chase it up, especially if large quantities were taken they would come down on them but wouldn't be a common thing they would be looking out for.

Also a while back recalled that a guy hired by the brewery posted on here and said he is regularly getting back kegs that are in the wrong hands. From memory the guy worked NSW/QLD areas and was hired by Tooheys & CUB, but he wouldn't be the only one I suppose. He said that normally people don't realise what they have is illegal and they tend to give people the benefit of the doubt - and in whatever form it's in, it gets taken back by the brewery and sold for scrap. He said that people who don't surrender them on request from the brewery are usually referred to the authorities. I guess that means that if you have one and you're found out, then you could have part of your brew rig removed.

Hopper.
 
I do have a variety of fittings on the water from DSI, but this will be about 10 weeks away. The cheapest option tends to be on Ebay for second hand couplers.

Also theres plenty of help via guys like Dave Mobbs at Andale at thier Botany Road store.
 
This is a legal keg turned into a HLT. It has no owner markings except on the inner top it gives you the size 15 gallons which equates to around 58.5L and the maximum pressure it will tolerate. It cost me $125.00 from the local HBS and was considerably cheaper than a heavy gauge stock pot.


View attachment 29098
 
Back
Top