The Hop Character/flavour Wheel

[Nick JD]

In another thread it was noted that the Hop Character Wheel image has not got a whole heap of the new varieties of hops on it. I proposed we add them in.

Who wants to help (aka, let the shitfight commence)?

I added Galaxy (ariel font, 14 point, black).

 

[tallie]

I added Galaxy (ariel font, 14 point, black).

Fruity, also Fruity - mistake or making a point?

Cheers,
tallie

 

[Nick JD]

Fruity, also Fruity - mistake or making a point?

Cheers,
tallie

Oh yeah. Oops. I'll fix it.

Any suggestions to hops that need to go in there? Where does Citra go?

 

[Nick JD]

How's this? Look right?

Where does Stella and Wai-iti go?

 

[Yob]

Quote

Aroma/Flavor: Lots of descriptors out there: Citrus, peach, apricot, passion fruit, grapefruit, lime, melon, gooseberry, lychee fruit, pineapple, mango, papaya and other tropical fruit flavors and aromas. So, ah, fruity.

Alpha Acid: 10 to 12%

from HERE

:icon_cheers:

edit Forgot the Wai Iti which I think falls into the same region.

Wai-iti Hop pellets. NZ - Crop 2011 (AA 2.8%) NEW VARIETY
High oil & low alpha low alpha Wai-ti showcases its aroma characters which are
startlingly of citrus made up of mandarin, lemon and lime zest..really intense.


Yob

 

[Nick JD]

Quote

Aroma/Flavor: Lots of descriptors out there: Citrus, peach, apricot, passion fruit, grapefruit, lime, melon, gooseberry, lychee fruit, pineapple, mango, papaya and other tropical fruit flavors and aromas. So, ah, fruity.

Alpha Acid: 10 to 12%

from HERE

:icon_cheers:

Yes - I too can look these up. The thing is - is it in the right place on the wheel?

IMO, lots of hops I've used a lot aren't in the place I'd put them on there. Centenial needs a GRASSY superscript.

With citra as the example, should it be closer to the citrus side or the floral side of the fruity area? There are subtleties in the wheel if you look closely. It's not cut and dried if you'll excuse the pun. The closer to the outside of the wheel, the stronger (more prominent) the flavour - so that needs to be accounted for too. Hence it's best if you've tried it.

Souldn't Wai-iti be in CITRUS?

 

[.DJ.]

shouldnt Simcoe be over near galaxy, centennial etc etc?

I always think of it as a mixture of NS and galaxy..

 

[Yob]

er... I do get what you mean, perhaps close to the line or even on it? the wheel has the (*) mark for also.. I guess these impressions will vary a little from person to person so just in the ball park is gunna do us yeah?

with Wai Iti, Ive used it once but not exclusivly but I would say it was on the fruity side of the line but only just with a . ?? Least that was my impression B)

This is a great utility

Cheers

edit:

Image

 

[Nick JD]

shouldnt Simcoe be over near galaxy, centennial etc etc?

I always think of it as a mixture of NS and galaxy..

Evergreen = Piney, or resiny. I think it's in the right place.

Another thing to note about the wheel is the little letters at the end of the hop names. This is where a hop displays characteristics from opposite sides of the wheel and can't be accurately placed.

Southern cross could have been put in the CITRUS area (IMO) with an "V" noting it was piney also.

 

[Nick JD]

This is a great utility

For sure. I've used it a few times for recipe formulation.

Like say you wanted a Boh Pils with a hint more earthiness and a touch of pine in there: Use Tettnanger with a touch of Green Bullet. That sort of thing.

 

[MarkBastard]

I personally don't see a lot of value in that wheel.

 

[MHB]

There have been lots of attempts to pictorially describe hops, any single point diagram is destine to fail, it simply cant convey enough information.
What I find most useful are spider diagrams, they are very popular among German hop researchers and writers.
Starting on about page 30 you might get some idea of what Im talking about, note taste and aroma arent on the same diagram!
You will have to download the PDF its 6+Meg so I cant post it Hop Variety Portfolio: Download near the bottom of the page.
Mark

 

[Nick JD]

There have been lots of attempts to pictorially describe hops, any single point diagram is destine to fail, it simply can’t convey enough information.

True, but in saying this you've missed the point. To a lot of new brewers that hop wheel is a very valuable tool. It's even been used in good books, which kind of illustrates its usefulness somewhat.

If you are brewing guru - of course it's not much use - but to the begginner who doesn't want to trail through each and every hop variety it gives a quick pictorial idea of where hops sit in relation to other hops.

Perhaps you could do a thread for those who already know everything about hop flavours? Like zee germans you mention. If these spider diagrams are useful to you (an expert's expert) then they will be next to useless to those new to brewing trying to understand hop flavour and the relationships between varieties.

Again (ad bloody nauseum), people starting out brewing do not require a Treatise of the be all and end all of Brewing. They just wanna know what hops taste like without trolling through a lot of text. KIS Stupid. We all know you're smart and we should buy stuff from you because you're so smart ... but we get it now, so let's try to be helpful rather than Captain Smartipants, eh?

 

[yardy]

There have been lots of attempts to pictorially describe hops, any single point diagram is destine to fail, it simply cant convey enough information.
What I find most useful are spider diagrams, they are very popular among German hop researchers and writers.
Starting on about page 30 you might get some idea of what Im talking about, note taste and aroma arent on the same diagram!
You will have to download the PDF its 6+Meg so I can’t post it Hop Variety Portfolio: Download near the bottom of the page.
Mark

nice post

 

[the_new_darren]

POR should be further in the dirt hop section (I mean earthy)

tnd

 

[gravey]

There have been lots of attempts to pictorially describe hops, any single point diagram is destine to fail, it simply can't convey enough information.
What I find most useful are spider diagrams, they are very popular among German hop researchers and writers.
Starting on about page 30 you might get some idea of what I'm talking about, note taste and aroma aren't on the same diagram!
You will have to download the PDF its 6+Meg so I can't post it Hop Variety Portfolio: Download near the bottom of the page.
Mark

very good link, thanks! Any idea where you can get similar diagrams for other hop varieties?

 

[MHB]

Im looking, John Ross from Hop Co put one out some years ago more a pie graph showing the various fractions but I cant open the file anymore been corrupted.
Just spoke to them and will get some more over the next couple of days, apparently way to big a file for 1 email and no one is in the office right now.

Might start a new thread save stepping on Nicks obviously sensitive ingrown toenail
Mark

 

[MarkBastard]

Im looking, John Ross from Hop Co put one out some years ago more a pie graph showing the various fractions but I cant open the file anymore been corrupted.
Just spoke to them and will get some more over the next couple of days, apparently way to big a file for 1 email and no one is in the office right now.

Might start a new thread save stepping on Nicks obviously sensitive ingrown toenail
Mark

Can't see your new thread so I'll ask here, and I didn't click on that link so if it's covered there then I'll probably look stupid.

But can hops at all be described based on the content of their oils etc? So hops with similar measured oils should be similar? Is there correlation between certain measured properties and the perceived aroma and flavour?

 

[Lecterfan]

Further to MarkB's comment, one of the last brew strong (a live Q+A I think) episodes spent some time discussing how important overall oil content is in regards to flavour/aroma etc rather than just AAU%ages. As an inexperienced AG brewer it made a lot of sense to me and based on that I have started to take overall oil content into account also (when the info is available, although I am assuming that even with seasonal differences some varieties will simply be 'oilier' than others). Sorry for the slightly off topic ramble.

 

[MHB]

Havent started a new thread, but will when I have more information to post.
And yes I believe that thats the idea of spider diagrams, the Link does explain the method used to gather the data and is well worth reading.
The biggest problem I see with a single point diagram is well look at Mittlefrh smack in the middle, is that saying it has an equal balance of all the characters or none of them at all?
Compare that to the spider diagram on Page 30 and see which is the most informative.
Mark