The Flag

[Kai]

One thing that annoys me about the Australian Flag debate that springs up from time to time is the "Oh the soldiers and servicemen both men and women who died defending the flag and we are going to be grinding their memory into the dust if we change the flag... wail wail wail"

They are IMHO playing "now I've got you you sons of Child molester bitches". However to take an objective view, several Commonwealth countries have adopted new national flags and in the case of Canada I could be wrong but more Canadians have given their lives for the empire than Aussies and New Zealanders put together but they gladly embraced their Maple Leaf flag back back in the 60s, 70s ????

Canadian members here, can you remember, or know of, what debates surrounded the choice of the maple leaf flag at that time? An 'inside' view on this from other colonial cousins would be illuminating.

What bugs me is how the debate springs up every year, usually on a Jan 25 'slow news day'.

 

[bum]

No, manticle. Post your reasons.

 

[zebba]

People fight and die over all sorts of stupid sh1t. No reason to keep doing stupid sh1t...

 

[newguy]

If you're interested (probably not), the flag debate appeared in the Canadian press today. Story here.

 

[Adamt]

Oh yes.. another thing that slipped my mind yesterday...

If we were to change the flag and remove the union jack for the reason being complete independence from the British, or if we were to become a republic: Should that little state in the top right hand corner still be called QUEENsland?

 

[Duffbowl]

Oh yes.. another thing that slipped my mind yesterday...

If we were to change the flag and remove the union jack for the reason being complete independence from the British, or if we were to become a republic: Should that little state in the top right hand corner still be called QUEENsland?

Can't see why not. A name is a name is a name.

The US still has Virginia and West Virginia (named for Queen Bess), North and South Carolina (named for King Charles I), Maryland (for Chuck I's missus), Georgia (King George II), New York (for Chuck II's brother, James, Duke of York), New Hampshire (for the county), New Jersey (for the island). New Zealand is the anglicised version of the Dutch name for it, Nieuw-Zeeland.

 

[brettprevans]

Everyone saying the fact that soldiers, airmen and sailors fought under the flag argument is crap are out of line. If any of you are ex-military, you would not be saying that. Of course they fought for the country not the flag, but for them the flag has much more meaning that of a civilian. That flag represents what they were out there risking their lives for, their identity, and for people who want it changed just because they are offended by the historical reference to Britain is wrong. I served in the Middle East some years back and was Flag Attendant at our ANZAC Ceremony, it was one of the proudest moments of my military career out in the desert in the middle of nowhere, hoisting and lowering the flag at the appropriate moments. When I look at the flag, I don't see references to our English background, I see the Australian flag, that's all. No doubt it will be changed one day, but you won't see the push coming from those that defend this country.

cheers

Browndog

edit spellin

+1000

so well summed up.

 

[Barley Belly]

A coupla suggestions

OR

 

[np1962]

Everyone saying the fact that soldiers, airmen and sailors fought under the flag argument is crap are out of line. If any of you are ex-military, you would not be saying that. Of course they fought for the country not the flag, but for them the flag has much more meaning that of a civilian. That flag represents what they were out there risking their lives for, their identity, and for people who want it changed just because they are offended by the historical reference to Britain is wrong. I served in the Middle East some years back and was Flag Attendant at our ANZAC Ceremony, it was one of the proudest moments of my military career out in the desert in the middle of nowhere, hoisting and lowering the flag at the appropriate moments. When I look at the flag, I don't see references to our English background, I see the Australian flag, that's all. No doubt it will be changed one day, but you won't see the push coming from those that defend this country.

cheers

Browndog

edit spellin

You are so right BD. If everyone had 10% of the respect for the flag that you, me and most other serving and ex members have I would be a happy man. Really pisses me off when I see a flag flying at night or being dragged along the ground by some yob.
This is not to say that if it were changed for valid reasons and by concensus that I would not have that same respect for a new flag.
I am unashamedly a Republican and Australia becoming a Republic is a lot higher on my agenga than a change to the flag. They are not necessarilly linked IMO.
Cheers
Nige

 

[peas_and_corn]

Oh yes.. another thing that slipped my mind yesterday...

If we were to change the flag and remove the union jack for the reason being complete independence from the British, or if we were to become a republic: Should that little state in the top right hand corner still be called QUEENsland?

Well, that's just silly. Why not go on and rename Adelaide because it's named after an actual queen? These things are in concrete by now.

 

[Murcluf]

How about this as the new flag as a nation our politians are forever trying to tie us to one countries or anothers apron strings ie. UK, US, China etc etc etc happy to sell us off to the lowest bidder. :angry:

It's a friggin embarassment to all those who have shed blood sweat and tear to build our great nation, change the flag, the anthem or become a republic are ideas constantly brought up by useless lazy mongrels who have no respect for the heritage of this country. Tough up Princess this is Australia and if you have an issue with this country's history or identity you can always leave..... I'm quite happy to close the door behind you....

 

[bum]

The apprentice has learned his lessons well.

 

[Adamt]

Well, that's just silly. Why not go on and rename Adelaide because it's named after an actual queen? These things are in concrete by now.

It was partly tongue-in-cheek, but Adelaide, Victoria, etc. are named after actual people that existed in positions of power when the places weres founded. Queensland doesn't refer to a monarch in particular, but refers specifically to the monarchial (is that a word?) position, a position which is a kind of constant reminder of our British heritage, just like the Union Jack on the flag.

 

[bum]

Under your logic I presume you'd equally be calling for a change to Kingsland once Liz abdicates?

 

[Adamt]

Yep... but not the Kingswood!

 

[zebba]

It's a friggin embarassment to all those who have shed blood sweat and tear to build our great nation, change the flag, the anthem or become a republic are ideas constantly brought up by useless lazy mongrels who have no respect for the heritage of this country. Tough up Princess this is Australia and if you have an issue with this country's history or identity you can always leave..... I'm quite happy to close the door behind you....

I assume then that when (if) the anthem or flag change that you'll leave? I won't close the door behind you though. Our great nation is built on welcoming different people and freedom of opinion. That people cite the dead to push their own barrow is the embarassment.

 

[Murcluf]

I assume then that when (if) the anthem or flag change that you'll leave? I won't close the door behind you though. Our great nation is built on welcoming different people and freedom of opinion. That people cite the dead to push their own barrow is the embarassment.

While you are busy assuming away there I hope you don't think that it it only ok for those of british descent to be supportive of this country's heritage and yes the fact that this country welcome people of all nations does make it great. When my Grand father (who is still alive) came out to Australia from Algeria in the 1950's with 20 pound, the clothes on his back and little knowledge of the english language, travelling the country working on farms and fruit blocks trying to make his mark in this land. He always told us that you should be proud and support the nation that had supported you as it is those who have gone before you, leave you with what you have today. So I'm not embarssed by what anyone has done here.

 

[Duffbowl]

It's a friggin embarassment to all those who have shed blood sweat and tear to build our great nation, change the flag, the anthem or become a republic are ideas constantly brought up by useless lazy mongrels who have no respect for the heritage of this country. Tough up Princess this is Australia and if you have an issue with this country's history or identity you can always leave..... I'm quite happy to close the door behind you....

Using that notion, federation should never have occurred, as it changed the identity of the colonies. South Australia has had four flags since it was declared a colony in 1836. The Union Flag until 1870, then three variations of the British Blue Ensign with the symbol of the colony/state.

 

[zebba]

Murcluf,

My grandfather has almost the exact same story, just sub "The Netherlands" for "Algeria". I'm not sure what your reply to me has to do with what I said...

Whenever this flag or republic issue comes up, without fail some nationalist will jump up and say "if you don't like it fk off". Of course, this response is about as un-Australian as they come - as I stated, Australia is built on differences amongst people, and it's what makes us great. That some people think people with different opinions should just leave, and that you (and plenty of others) are more then happy to close the door behind them is an embarassment. Personally, I'm more then happy to share this country with people with different opinions to mine.

 

[drsmurto]

If you're interested (probably not), the flag debate appeared in the Canadian press today. Story here.

I like the flag in that article.