The End Result

[Peaka]

Hey people,

I just wanted to see what everyones thoughts are on a brew I just put down on Saturday 07/10/06.
I'm basically experimenting so you may well laugh lol.
Now I know you aren't meant to use normal white sugar in brews but I did this time because its cheap hahah.
What I did was leave the cake of sediment in the fermenter from the previous brew (which was bottled about 2 days before).
I then put in a Coopers Stout and Home Brand Lager along with 3kg of white sugar because I wanted a strong beer and I then just sprinkled 1 packet of yeast over the top. The original gravity before pitching yeast was 1.100.
Its now Monday and its at about 24 degrees and bubbling feverishly lol.
Now what would you expect the final gravity to be and also the alcohol content?
Do you think it will be worth drinking?

 

[DJR]

That's going to be one monster of a beer. If you can drink it, great, if not, well it will always be good for cleaning the BBQ.

If you started at 1100, you'd expect 1020 or thereabouts with 80% attenuation, so that's 80 points difference multiplied by 0.13 = 10.4% alcohol.

 

[Peaka]

Sweet, I hope it turns out ok. I'll let you all know how it goes. Just another question: Is 2 weeks really enough to wait for secondary fermentation to finish or is waiting at least 1 month heaps better?

 

[DJR]

Sweet, I hope it turns out ok. I'll let you all know how it goes. Just another question: Is 2 weeks really enough to wait for secondary fermentation to finish or is waiting at least 1 month heaps better?

With a monster beer like that, probably more like a month. Takes a while and the yeast get really slow getting through all that sugar (think about lazy 60 year old humans with huge bloated beer guts to give you an analogy )

But since you've put it on the whole yeast cake, it might be done in 2 weeks or less.

 

[VeeTwinTorque]

Holy moly! You trying to make rocket fuel? The stout might help to offset the white sugar taste, but 3kg is a hell of a lot of white sugar. I think your beer will taste woeful, but will make you fall over very fast.

Definately worth drinking....! Ha ha ha.
I think the high alcohol volume might kill your yeast off before its finished.

 

[dirty mac]

Are you serious. Thats gonna taste like molasses with bubbles. Won't you have a serious risk of a skunk arse infection pong by not sterilising the fermenter from the last brew??

I'd give that one to your enemies h34r:

 

[Coodgee]

I would be worried about picking up an infection in the two days between bottling the last batch and pitching this one. 2 days is a fair time to leave the yeast cake sitting like that.

 

[Peaka]

But I did leave the lid of the fermenter screwed on or doesn't that matter?

 

[dirty mac]

But I did leave the lid of the fermenter screwed on or doesn't that matter?

I don't think that matters, you would still have all the scum stuck to the sides that would be prone to nasty bacteria.
I think of it like if you cooked a chicken caserole then left the pot sitting there for a couple of days I would not be cooking my spag bog in it without cleaning the sucker :lol:

 

[petesbrew]

You're mad, but as always, post your results... I'm sure everyone here is interested in finding out what this will taste like.

 

[Coodgee]

But I did leave the lid of the fermenter screwed on or doesn't that matter?

It's 50/50 really. it could be ok.

imagine the side of the fermenter after you've drained the beer when bottling. You've got a huge surface area of plastic with a fine coating of sticky beer on it. It's prime breeding ground for bacteria.

but just see how it goes.

next time, start off with a fresh packet of yeast, either use the yeast that came with the kit or source a packet of safale yeast. Use dextrose instead of sugar. 3kg of sugar is excessive. it will provide more alcohol but will greatly detract from the flavour and aroma of the beer. you're going to have something that tastes more like cider.

do you have a brew store near you? if you want to make some really impressive beer, go for one of their kits + "beer enhancer" kits which should contain some dry malt extract and some hops. Just ask the person behind the counter.

I commend your adventurousness, but sticking to "the rules" might give you a better result.

just be VERY sure to get yourself a hydrometer and make sure that beer is fully finnishing fermenting before you bottle it. take a hydrometer reading after 6 days. take another one 3 days later. if they are the same reading, then wait a week, and bottle. otherwise you will end up making deadly glass bombs.

 

[Stuster]

I think there's a good chance it'll be ok re infections. It's not the best method, but the residue left behind has already fermented and contains alcohol so it's not the bacteria heaven that unfermented wort is.

Also, the sugar = cider flavour story is a bit of a myth. Belgian brewers use a fair amount of sugar (up to 20% in tripels) with no cider flavour. Lots of British brewers use sugar as well. Some people have suggested instead this taste comes from old extract and/or high fermentation temps. Most brewers start out with K+K. By the time they get fresher extract and lower their ferment temps, they have stopped using sugar. Bingo, the problem goes away and it's easy to blame the sugar for this.

Of course, sugar is almost totally fermentable, so a K+K will still have little body and using more malt to up the body will mostly be a good thing. But in this case I doubt there'll be a problem with all that malt as well. :lol:

I agree with Coodgee that you should be very sure fermentation is over before bottting. A month's secondary would be a good idea. Since you used a yeast cake, your yeast will probably be able to attenuate well enough. Keep the temp down as much as you can. 18 or less will be best. The stick on thermometer will not show you the temp inside the fermenter which could be a few degrees higher with such vigorous fermentation.

I don't think it'll necessarily be that bad. Keep us posted if you remember how to after drinking one of these beers. :lol:

 

[Peaka]

Well I'm happy to report that this beer tastes pretty damn good. It has the smell and taste of a strong stout and trust me it is pretty strong hahaha.
I only have 1 longneck and I'm already feeling the effects hahaha.
I think I might have to make this again.

 

[Screwtop]

Also, the sugar = cider flavour story is a bit of a myth. Belgian brewers use a fair amount of sugar (up to 20% in tripels) with no cider flavour.

Mostly invert sugar, even Grumpy's belgian kits contain invert sugar! And some Belgian beers are fermented at high temps!

 

[Stuster]

Screwtop, AFAIK, white sugar can be inverted by the yeast itself. From here.

Cane sugar is rapidly inverted when added to cask, the change being generally complete in about 24 hours. This process is believed to be an essential preliminary to fermentation. It is carried out by the enzyme inertiase or sucrase secreted by the yeast and does not appear to affect the fermentative activity of the yeast or influence the rate of fermentation. Baker and Hulton found that cane sugar and invert primings were fermented at substantially the same rate in beer under ordinary cellar conditions and that about one-third of either sugar still remained unfermented after 7 days in cask when added at normal priming rates.

This is about priming, but I can no reason to suppose this would be any different earlier in the process. Also, to make inverted sugar, you need heat and an acid environment. I think sugar added to the boil kettle is inverted anyway.

Plenty of Belgian beers are fermented at lower temperatures too, like Chimay, which is brewed at around 18C I believe. British brewers also use a range of sugars, some inverted, some not.

I'm no expert about this, but I doubt using white sugar will make any appreciable difference. Anybody else got some good info on this?

 

[mika]

Time for another experiment...next time use cans from a lighter brew, boil them to get rid of the hop flavour and give that a go. Be mostly malt then and you can do a taste comparison. Suprising that it actually fermented !

 

[DJR]

Who knows, you might win BOS at the Nationals with a beer like that

Oh shite, i mentioned the war. Sorry guys, maybe i should talk about no-chill?

 

[Screwtop]

Screwtop, AFAIK, white sugar can be inverted by the yeast itself. From here.

Cane sugar is rapidly inverted when added to cask, the change being generally complete in about 24 hours. This process is believed to be an essential preliminary to fermentation. It is carried out by the enzyme inertiase or sucrase secreted by the yeast and does not appear to affect the fermentative activity of the yeast or influence the rate of fermentation. Baker and Hulton found that cane sugar and invert primings were fermented at substantially the same rate in beer under ordinary cellar conditions and that about one-third of either sugar still remained unfermented after 7 days in cask when added at normal priming rates.

This is about priming, but I can no reason to suppose this would be any different earlier in the process. Also, to make inverted sugar, you need heat and an acid environment. I think sugar added to the boil kettle is inverted anyway.

Plenty of Belgian beers are fermented at lower temperatures too, like Chimay, which is brewed at around 18C I believe. British brewers also use a range of sugars, some inverted, some not.

I'm no expert about this, but I doubt using white sugar will make any appreciable difference. Anybody else got some good info on this?

Screwtop, AFAIK, white sugar can be inverted by the yeast itself.

Sure Can Be!

It is carried out by the enzyme inertiase or sucrase secreted by the yeast and does not appear to affect the fermentative activity of the yeast or influence the rate of fermentation. Baker and Hulton found that cane sugar and invert primings were fermented at substantially the same rate in beer under ordinary cellar conditions and that about one-third of either sugar still remained unfermented after 7 days in cask when added at normal priming rate

Just tastes cidery, but not so much when used in small amounts for priming.

Edit: