Tell The Truth

[Huhness]

I have had plenty of K&K HB beer before some done well some not so well.. :blink:

I've never had a AG HB before (Not even a partial!)

And all you AG guys seem really turned off these lovely cans of goop..

Is it really that good? Is it like turning to the dark side? Turning your back on the goop? Is it really better than commercial beer??

Tim :beer:

 

[Lobsta]

oh jeez you have opened up a big ol' can of worms there Huhness... ive only done one k+k brew and never tasted an AG, but i know how into their AG brews some of the guys on here get. get ready for some BIG replies

Lobby

 

[sah]

I'll make two points.

1. If you go all grain, you get serious about brewing. You become more knowledgeable, your skills improve, your process improves. This alone leads to you making much better beer, even if you were to use goop.

2. All grain gives you complete control over the recipe. You get to experiment and make beers to your liking. You attempt to brew styles from all around the world. You use lots of hops. You use interesting specialty grain. You use better yeast. Things the goop mentality doesn't give you the freedom to do.

However, take away a good all grain brewer's mash tun and give them malt extract, speciality grain and all the other things they would normally use and they'll be able to make really really fantastic beer.

All grain brewing isn't just about departing from the goop, it's an educational journey.

regards,
Scott

 

[Huhness]

oh jeez you have opened up a big ol' can of worms there Huhness... ive only done one k+k brew and never tasted an AG, but i know how into their AG brews some of the guys on here get. get ready for some BIG replies

Lobby

haha thats fine i'm interested to know more about differences in K&K and AG

I'll make two points.

1. If you go all grain, you get serious about brewing. You become more knowledgeable, your skills improve, your process improves. This alone leads to you making much better beer, even if you were to use goop.

2. All grain gives you complete control over the recipe. You get to experiment and make beers to your liking. You attempt to brew styles from all around the world. You use lots of hops. You use interesting specialty grain. You use better yeast. Things the goop mentality doesn't give you the freedom to do.

However, take away a good all grain brewer's mash tun and give them malt extract, speciality grain and all the other things they would normally use and they'll be able to make really really fantastic beer.

All grain brewing isn't just about departing from the goop, it's an educational journey.

regards,
Scott

Thanks scott!

 

[mika]

Biggest thing is the time input, not so much on brew day coz once you get it down pat you can mow the lawn while mashing etc, but there is a lot of prep work that goes into it...at least in my brewing. So it becomes a bit of a personal choice as to whether you want to spend that much time into making beer rather than drinking beer.
Personally, I love the science/engineering behind it all so it was a logical progression fo me. To answer more directly your original question, I must say, your definition of hop and malt taste expands exponentially when you brew All Grain. Yes it is the Dark side, but it's better over here.

 

[johnno]

I do it for the taste. It is so much better than cans, for me anyway.

As soon as I tried my first AG which was in a LHBS I was converted and knew that I had to do it.

cheers
johnno

 

[browndog]

If you really love beer, then when you taste your first AG it will be like a religous experience (whatever that may be). If you really love beer, you will suddenly realise what god put you on earth to do. And that is make and drink AG beer. Find a local AG brewer and get into it.

cheers

Browndog

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Out of interest, some time late last year, I made a K&K brew to see if I could make one better than those I made before discovering the One True Way.

It was definitely substantially better beer than any of my previous K&K brews. I had clearly learned stuff in my grain brewing escapades that improved my ability to make dump&stir beer. It was not however anywhere near as good as my grain beers.

There are plenty of analogies you can draw upon:
Automatic versus manual motor vehicles.
Making a curry from raw ingredients versus buying a jar of Patak's.
Installing Windows on a laptop computer versus managing several thousand seats...

It's all good and one takes more time and skill than the other. It depends on what you want to get out of the exercise.

I like drinking beer. I like the process of making beer from grain. I find myself drinking beer made from grain. What's not to like?

 

[PostModern]

I have been AG brewing for about 14 months now. I used to partial mash and made the odd kit along the way. My last kit was 15 months ago.

I have to say that while partial mashing, my Mrs (my super-critic) would occassionally turn up her nose at some batches. Since going AG, I think there was one whacky out of balance beer that she didn't like. As long as you're not an idiot and make completely wrong, out of balance beers, or have some major faults in technique or gear, it's pretty hard to make bad beer with AG. There are just degrees of good.

 

[Adamt]

To sum it up....

Kit and kilo is powdered soup.

AG is gourmet soup with home-made stock, fresh ingredients and TLC.

Sure you can make some good powdered soups with a few extra ingredients, better brands etc, but they're still powdered soups and are pale in comparison to restaurant quality soups.

 

[Jim_Levet]

Turning a can of goop into a drinkable beer is like trying to turn Beef Jerky back into steak!
I can't remember how many times I heard that pitch before I came over to the dark side!
James

 

[Huhness]

Thanks guys!!

Keep the comments coming!!! I do love beer! i've never been much of a spirits person..

Reading more on here i also see some of the beer i enjoy even including Kronenbourg which i consider my favourite! ranks quite low on your lists..

Can someone also recommend some good unique beers which rate well??

 

[bugwan]

I can't decide which part of appreciating beer is my favourite...the ritual of brewing or the drinking.

5 hours to yourself (or perhaps a couple of mates), smelling the glorious aroma of sweet, sweet malt, producing the best damn beer you've enjoyed in a long time...now that's the way to spend a weekend...!

If the idea of 'slaving' over a hot stove and measuring out ingredients sounds like a chore to you, then maybe draw the line at K&K or partials. AG isn't for everyone, it takes time, dedication, enthusiasm and a bit of cash. If you're happy with the beers you already produce and you're not interested in the extra work, then give AG a miss.

From my perspective, AG is the finest 'hobby' anyone could ever have. It's a science, cum art, cum passion. It's as individual as the brewer and his equipment/technique. Brew clubs quite often run programs where the exact same brew is run through similar equipment by different brewers....and guess what? Very different beer results every time. It's s passion you need to give time to, but you don't need to be a bachelor or a super geek to get it right.

Give AG a bash - you can do it with a stove-top, a plastic bucket and a fermenter (surely you already have most of that). Taste the difference - is it reasonable? Do you want it to taste better or are you happy with your beer already?

So many questions...none of which I can answer!

Good luck

 

[Brownie]

Can't imagine why its only when you start brewing all grain that your brain suddenly changes and then allows you to use hops and better yeast and of course experimenting with variations on a theme.

That all sounds very much like a huge pile of mumbo jumbo.

I would like to know what the chemical or neuro pathway that changes to allow this metomorphasis to occur when one touches a mash tun or a grain mill....please tell me.

I am a K&K Brewer, for many reasons this is probably where I'll stay for many years to come (maybe one day i'll convert). But even though I haven't touched all grain brewing I experiment.

I try different yeasts, different hops, different adjuncts, basically I well...experiment

I like the beer I make, may not live up to the expectations of some, but I like...so I am happy.

So I think anyone who thinks that just by touching a bit of grain you become some brewing god...I say wake up and get your hand off it.....

I understand my position will not be welcomed by some...but well I thought home brewing beer was about doing something you love doing and making beer YOU like to drink...oh and having FUN doing it.....

Have a nice day.

P.S. I thought real brewing was when you opened a can of goo with a rusty old can opener and threw it all into watever container you could find and added a shitload of sugar........

 

[Batz]

P.S. I thought real brewing was when you opened a can of goo with a rusty old can opener and threw it all into watever container you could find and added a shitload of sugar........

That's making beer not brewing beer.
A Little like buying a packet of cake mix I suppose,that's making a cake not baking one.

Batz

 

[Trent]

Thanks guys!!

Keep the comments coming!!! I do love beer! i've never been much of a spirits person..

Reading more on here i also see some of the beer i enjoy even including Kronenbourg which i consider my favourite! ranks quite low on your lists..

Can someone also recommend some good unique beers which rate well??

Huhness
Sorry to hear that Kronenbourg is a favourite of yours. It is probably OK for a lager, but...
You want some interesting beers to try? Get yer wallet ready...
As far as Aussie beers go
- Little Creatures Pale Ale
- Anything by Murray's Craft Brewing Co (nirvana Pale, Sassy Blonde, Grand Cru at 8.5% and Icon - IIPA at 7.5%)
- The Little Brewing co makes some decent beers, their Wicked Elf series
- Get yerself to Potters in the Hunter Valley and talk to Keith. They make some great beer, and Keith will be able to talk you (or show you) through the whole process. Sorry to dob you in, Keith!
- Matilda Bay make some great beers.
- Grand Ridge can be a bit hit and miss, but is usually good.
There are many other great aussie beers, get into a Dan Murphy's (there is one at Tuggerah) and have a look around.

As far as O/S beers go, the list is longer than your arm. Ones to really look out for include

Chimay (red, white or blue 0 all good)
Duvel
Rochefort 8 or 10
delirium tremens
Emersons from NZ
Monteiths from NZ
Weihenstephan Weizen (tastes of banana and cloves, like all good German wheat beers)
Aventinus Weizen-Eisbock
Schneider Wiesse
Fransizkaner Dunkel Weizen
Pilsner Urquell (the original pilsner)
Youngs Double Chocolate Stout
Orval (aquired taste - semi sour beer)
Hoegaarden (belgian witbier)

Literally hundreds of other good ones. Head to a good bottle shop, there are some in newcastle if you are ever up that way, and start tasting anything ya havent seen before.
Hope that helps
Trent

 

[sah]

Can't imagine why its only when you start brewing all grain that your brain suddenly changes and then allows you to use hops and better yeast and of course experimenting with variations on a theme.

That all sounds very much like a huge pile of mumbo jumbo.

I would like to know what the chemical or neuro pathway that changes to allow this metomorphasis to occur when one touches a mash tun or a grain mill....please tell me.

Hi Brownie, it's not psychophysical

For many going AG means they have to learn more than they already know and hands on is a really good way to learn. They get a better understanding of all aspects including how the ingredients (hops, yeast, malt) work together.

Often it's also the first time a full volume boil is used, which really allows the brewer to get the most out of hops from bittering through to flavour and aroma.

Having written this, maybe there is a "chemical or neuro pathway" change, perhaps brought on by LTS. Interesting theory :lol:

regards,
Scott

 

[matti]

All grain brewing isn't just about departing from the goop, it's an educational journey.

regards,
Scott

Couldn't agree more.

That's making beer not brewing beer.
A Little like buying a packet of cake mix I suppose,that's making a cake not baking one.

:lol:

And to answer the original questions.
You can make special beer with a can of goo too.

With a proper boil and hop additions. A good yeast and right temperature.

AG to me is an entire new universe and it has engulfed me and then some. The more I learn the less I realise how little I know.

AG is not just about brewing. Its a life style.
a very consuming one :lol:

Matti

 

[andreic]

You can make great beers with Kits. Use good yeasts, freshest/best extract/kits, additional hops and specialty grains all help. Have your sanitation regime sorted out. Have controlled fermentation temps. If you don't have these areas sorted out then your AG beers will probably be just as crap as your Kit beers.

I've been in 2 case swaps now and have tasted a few outstanding kit/extract beers.

I have found with my own brewing that AG gives me a "fresher" tasting beer, and the ability to make lighter/pale style beers that I was never happy with from the kits.

If you want to try an AG brew - check out some of the fresh wort kits. I did a couple of these a few years back that were outstanding and decided pretty much from this point that I needed to go AG... (was already thinking about it)

 

[Duff]

Huhness,

You're not a real brewer unless you brew AG.

There, I said it