Tastes Like Chemicals?

[ckoerntjes]

Ok... So me and my mate have put down two brews neither of which have been up the scratch...

The first was a coopers pale, made with the yeast recommended by the brew shop and 1kg of malt also recommended by the brew shop (I now know to remember whatever goes in my brew.). Anyway obvious problems were that we followed the coopers directions and brewed it too warm (25 degrees.) and probably left it in the fermenter too long (we were paranoid it hadn't finished and didnt have a hydrometer yet.)

Anyway we bottled the stuff and were really excited when we opened the first one...until we tasted it. Carbonation was lovely (hell of a lot of yeast in the bottom of the bottle though.) but it tasted like beer mixed with a chemical of some sort . (We used no rinse sanitiser and everything was spotless before we started) This chemical taste was especially strong in the yeast sediment in the bottom.

After struggling through that bad lot we put down a brewcraft little creatures clone. (used everything in the box and didn't leave it in the fermenter too long (about 1 week).) When that was done and bottled we opened and it tasted better (had less sediment too) but still had the chemically flavour... We just put down a snowy mountains clone (Boxed kit) and are awaiting the results now..

Any ideas on getting rid of this chemically flavour????
(If your in SE Melbourne and fancy a taste it can be arranged)
Cheers.

(Apologies if I've missed info or don't make sense, I'm not much of a forumer.)

 

[raven19]

Hopefully brew #3 will be better.

The no rinse sanitiser should not leave a chemical taste in the beer.

I would arrange a test taste for some nearby brewers for sure.

Temperatures for the second brew?

Stick with it, it shall come good im sure.

 

[bum]

I'm going to ask a pertinent (though potentially controversial) question: have you ever had homebrew before?

 

[ckoerntjes]

I'm going to ask a pertinent (though potentially controversial) question: have you ever had homebrew before?

Once... it was a friends and he admits he did a rubbish job... I don't remember it very well (courtesy of the half slab of coopers I drank before hand). Why do you ask???

 

[bum]

There is a flavour known as "kit twang" and I'm wondering if that is the flavour you're noticing.

 

[kc_ksom]

OK I'll bite.

(I'm going to ask a pertinent (though potentially controversial) question: have you ever had homebrew before?)

What has that got to do with a chemical flavour, cause I dont know about your brew, but I can assure you that mine dont have any chemical flavour, lol..

casey

 

[chappo1970]

There is a flavour known as "kit twang" and I'm wondering if that is the flavour you're noticing.

+1

My exact thoughts Bum.

Isohops I have always suspected?

 

[ckoerntjes]

Ummm... whats kit twang?
(sorry for my ignorance.)

 

[Adamt]

"Kit twang" is a combination of:

-Acetaldehyde from a crap fermentation (cidery apple) -- this may not be a problem in this case as it was left for a while in the fermenter
-Metallic flavour from spoiled malt

Metallic could almost be called "medicinal"

Medicinal to me is a plasticcy (bandaid), spicy flavour caused by chlorophenols.

What cleaning/sanitising products did you use?

 

[ckoerntjes]

"Kit twang" is a combination of:

-Acetaldehyde from a crap fermentation (cidery apple) -- this may not be a problem in this case as it was left for a while in the fermenter
-Metallic flavour from spoiled malt

Metallic could almost be called "medicinal"

Medicinal to me is a plasticcy (bandaid), spicy flavour caused by chlorophenols.

What cleaning/sanitising products did you use?
[/q]

Brewshield sanitiser... Everything was thoroughly cleaned by my mate after the previous brews bottling. All we did was rinse in hot water and sanitise. Could it have been the detergent he used? (Even though it was all thoroughly rinsed?)

 

[bum]

"Kit twang" is a combination of:

-Acetaldehyde from a crap fermentation (cidery apple) -- this may not be a problem in this case as it was left for a while in the fermenter
-Metallic flavour from spoiled malt

I disagree with this. I agree that these are flavours that might be commonly found in kit brews but I think this is more process based than anything else. I've never had any cidery notes to any of my kits and I've definitely never had a metallic taste - however, no matter how hard I try there is always a common "twang" in all of my kits beers (a flavour that is not present in my extract beers). Not suggesting for a minute that my brewing practices are perfect, by any means, but that disappointing "twang" was the first thing that came to mind when I saw he had a common bad flavour between different styles/brands of kit with (presumably) different fermentables and somewhat different processes.

 

[bum]

OK I'll bite.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off here. I do kit brews and I'd never tell anyone not to.

(sorry for my ignorance.)

Not at all. We're all learning here. Well, those of us who don't think we already have all the answers anyway. Welcome aboard.

 

[chappo1970]

Two things I have suspected about kits. One is the tin is generally a galvanised tin of which a malt concentrate which is very mildly acidic is placed in. I reckon this imparts a tinny/chemical/twang flavour. Secondly isohops which I have had concentrate by itself imparted a simular taste. To me that is. Maybe I am overly sensitive to it but I can taste a kit a mile away. i found when I went to extract that common taste went completely away.

 

[bum]

The only thing that is stopping me from happily blaming the can itself is the fact that I've done an all liquid extract brew and that taste should have been there if that was the reason. You're probably right about the isohops - but then why don't certain mega-brews have the twang?

The only way to get a definitive answer is for someone to do an AG brew with isohops only. You volunteering, Chappo?

[EDIT: spelling like a drunk]

 

[chappo1970]

The only thing that is stopping me from happily blaming the can itself is the fact that I've done an all liquid extract brew and thet taste should have been there if that was the reason. You're probably right about the isohops - but then why don't certain mega-brews have the twang?

The only way to get a definative answer is for someone to do an AG brew with isohops only. You volunteering, Chappo?

Fark no Bum! I'll take one for the boys as you know but i draw the line at isohops, sorry mate.

I get you your point with extract but it also does have some 200+ IBU's of isohops in there plus all the other crap? Be interesting to take a pH of a can of goop, no?

Chap Chap

 

[bum]

Oh. Is the suggestion that the isohops reacts with the metal? I can see how that might happen (whether it actually could or not is beyond me, however).

Interesting idea.

 

[Adamt]

The kit tins are plastic lined, if I recall correctly, there shouldn't be any leaching.

I'll still maintain that the twang is stale malt (and often this accompanies acetaldehyde in the real 2kg-of-sugar+28C kit beers), Palmer mentions it under "Metallic" in the common off-flavours section as hydrolysis of lipids in the extract (to a fatty acid/carboxylic acid? Probably chemistry fail.) I'm guessing whatever is leftover gets decomposed/driven off in the boil.

EDIT: While there is 200IBU of alpha acids in there, there is also a shiteload of solids, so alpha acid mixture in the tin would be very slow and exposure of alpha acid to the actual tin would also be low.

 

[chappo1970]

Well my theory relies on the higher concentration of Alpha Acids in the isohops. Acids being the word here reacting with the galvanised coating. Pure speculation :icon_cheers:

 

[AntCoop]

I do all liquid extracts all the time now with steeping and my own hopping.( I get fresh liquid extract from work)

One thing I have really noticed is the better flavour and non ISOhop twang I used to get from K&K cans.

Yes there really is a massive difference with your own hopping instead of isohop can bitterness IMO.

The verdict is kits no more for me...Hop your own!

Coops :icon_cheers:

Edit : got to have good temperature control when fermenting or it don't mean jack!

 

[ckoerntjes]

Oooookaaayyy... Most of what just happened flew way over my head like a C-130..
.
So am I doing something wrong? Or is it just the tins? (I do stress that I don't consider the coopers brew drinkable and the little creatures clone only just bearable so if the kit twang is supposed to be a rather subtle flavour then I don't think it's that.).

If it is the tin obviously getting a can with furthest use by date would ease that problem...
Could it be that both the little creatures and coopers cans had been sitting on the shelf for too long?
Should I stick with doing the same brew multiple times trying to sort out this flavor or keep experimenting with different kits?

Btw I should mention I am in no position to begin AG brews.