Taphouse's Hottest 100 Craft Beers 2010

[MarkBastard]

now that Fat Yak is brewed no longer at the Dandenong site, but in a larger operation, then surely that should diqualify it (as it is no longer brewed in Fosters craft section)...

You know what, when Fat Yak was new I had it at the breakfast creek hotel in Brisbane and it was really really nice. It had a nice amount of late hops. It's a completely different beer now, so like JSGA it's a perfect example of a beer that I would have considered a craft beer at first but is now probably not one.

It's good that the observation in the change of taste in both cases matches up to the change in brewing technique (big batch compared to small batch).

With that in mind, maybe smaller batches is a necessity of craft beer. But are there examples in the world of mega breweries making craft beer? Is it the big batch size that changes the flavour or is it that big breweries cut corners and substitute ingredients and are too impatient with fermenting/conditioning times etc?

I would like any definition of 'craft beer' to exclude 'political' things like ownership structure of the brewery etc personally.

 

[DanRayner]

Definition of the beer market as according to Fosters/CUB is interesting - I read a report on their market share in the beer industry last year and they saw it only in the following terms: Full-Strength (VB, Tooheys New, Carlton Draught etc), Mid-Strength, Light and Premium

Premium was pretty much defined as everything else and was divided into "premium import" ie: Corona and "premium domestic" which was everything from Crown Lager and Stella Artois to Fat Yak, Little Creatures, Coopers and everything small than these. Premium was also a tiny section of the overall beer market like, around 8%? (also, it looks like that Wiki-link that I posted there also recognises these simple divisions of the beer market).

I think when you have a tiny section of the market struggling to compete with the "full-strength" majority you gotta support whatever gets the average drinker interested in that tiny market share.

I love that Coopers's still the oldest family-owned brewery and is not part of the CUB/Lion Nathan duopoly. It is akin to the Yuengling brewery in the US which is viewed with much fondness by most craft beer drinkers cos they are doing it the way they have always done it over the last 170 odd years and have not compromised on quality/process/style etc.

Once your average VB drinker moves to the easy-drinking, inoffensive Fat Yak they may be more inclined to explore the possibilities of other smaller brands which is always good for this section of the market.

They might even take up brewing at home...

 

[big78sam]

This is the "hottest 100" or 100 most popular beers. If a beer has a wider distribution it's going to get more votes, that's just the way it works. It's a popularity contest not a panel of BJCP judges sitting down to judge each beer, or even the results of a blind tasting from a group of beer drinkers who get to taste every one of a shortlist. Good on McLaren Vale Ale I say, they have a successful product that obviously enough people like to get a good result.

Loot at this year's JJJs hottest 100 - won by Angus and Julia Stone. Was Big Jet Plane the best song of the year? Many have said it shouldnt have won but it was one of the most commercially successful songs so almost everyone had heard it.

I agree the criteria could have been tightened a bit though.

 

[MarkBastard]

I reckon Coopers is over rated. They have the political structure to be better, and make some interesting beers, but instead they BUL Budweiser and make Coopers Clear. I expect more from them. Their selection of beers isn't really any better than the mega-breweries. At least the megas have these little pretend craft breweries like JS and Matilda Bay.

EDIT: Except I really really really like Coopers Extra Stout. To me that's a craft beer.

 

[DanRayner]

I reckon Coopers is over rated. They have the political structure to be better, and make some interesting beers, but instead they BUL Budweiser and make Coopers Clear. I expect more from them. Their selection of beers isn't really any better than the mega-breweries. At least the megas have these little pretend craft breweries like JS and Matilda Bay.

EDIT: Except I really really really like Coopers Extra Stout. To me that's a craft beer.

I agree it was a mistake by them to make terrible beers like Clear and 1862 they should stick to the good ones: Pale, Sparkling, Extra Stout & Vintage - that is all

 

[mwd]

We also need a top ten of commonly available beers. Most of those on the top 100 I have never even heard of or even seen anywhere. Not much use if they are not widely available to taste.

We get Fat Yak on tap at a few places here but it is very bland nothing kind of beer. :icon_offtopic:

 

[WarmBeer]

With that in mind, maybe smaller batches is a necessity of craft beer. But are there examples in the world of mega breweries making craft beer? Is it the big batch size that changes the flavour or is it that big breweries cut corners and substitute ingredients and are too impatient with fermenting/conditioning times etc?

Somehow the second-tier US brewers manage to do it.

For example, Dogfish Head run 200 bbl brewery, if I remember correctly, and their 90 Min IPA is an awesome blast of hops, flavour and drinkability. Not exactly CUB mega-brewery sized, but they probably brew more volume than Coopers.

So big batches with big flavour can be done, we just don't yet have the market in this country to make it financially viable.

</imho>

 

[taj]

Nice to see True South get a mention

4 mentions even one of our seasonals got a gig.

 

[MarkBastard]

I agree it was a mistake by them to make terrible beers like Clear and 1862 they should stick to the good ones: Pale, Sparkling, Extra Stout & Vintage - that is all

Or it's a bit of a shame they're not at the forefront. Stone & Wood Draught/Pacific Ale is the kind of beer I would expect a company in the position of Coopers to brew. At least one beer like that. They don't really seem interested in making a new beer that is actually good. They seem to have the same opinion of the industry as the mega breweries do. Dumb beer done, brew BUL shitty imports and call them premium etc. I understand they have to make money and I don't begrudge them for running the company to make money, but let's call a spade a spade and call them a megaswill company on a smaller scale, with independent ownership, and a better than megaswill base range.

 

[dhal4]

Interesting list, say when you compare it to the one at ratebeer.com for Australia:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/country/australia/14/

 

[DanRayner]

Interesting list, say when you compare it to the one at ratebeer.com for Australia:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/country/australia/14/

Aaahhhhh, there's the Wig & Pen! Number 5

Seriously though, this list is not Joe-Average-Beer-Punter-@-a-swanky-pub, the ratebeer list is for absolute nutbags who are so passionate about good beer that they spend all their time logging on to beer websites and ranting and rav...

Oh. That's me and you guys...

 

[beers]

So has anyone had the McLaren Vale Ale? Is it worthy of top spot? Is it a top 10 beer?

I have had it on tap a few times (yet to try it from the bottle) & I found it to be quiet enjoyable for a session beer. Dry, with a nice galaxy like aroma. IMO it had a little more going for it than coopers pale (one of my fav session beers) & similar qualities to s&w pacific ale - which has me stumped as to why it is copping a panning. I guess if it doesn't smash you in the face like an IPA, & is contract brewed....

The general reaction to this years poll has me wondering how different the results would be if the votes were only taken over the bar at both Taphouse venues.

 

[proudscum]

Fair enough.

To me it's probably sort of hard to define in words, but I can easily try a beer and say whether it's craft or not.

In this country, almost everything that isn't a mega lager is a craft beer. I wouldn't call Coopers Pale Ale a craft beer though. It's megaswill albeit half descent mega swill. James Squire IPA may not be the most hardcore IPA around but I still think it's a craft beer.

Where it gets interesting is JS Golden Ale. I definitely would have used to have called it a craft beer, but it gets more and more megaswill tasting by the day and the last one I have I certainly wouldn't call a craft beer.

I think craft beer is a very broad term and it doesn't have a lot to do with the ownership status of the brewery.

The original Golden Ale was definitely a hand crafted beer at the Squire bar on swanston st and then it moved to the camperdown brewery in sydney.Which was when i stopped drinking it.The mainstream release party for the new GA they had was real disappointing for me and many of the other punters that where there.Circa 2003?

 

[np1962]

10 points for their marketing, im not saying the guys are stupid quite the opposite they are most likely very smart . I am sure they actually have it in them to make an amazing beer too! However, they are just making safe beer for people with "educated palettes."

The new head brewer at McLaren Vale may just shake things up a little in the coming months, a well respected member of the Adelaide Brewing Community who is supervising the install of their new brewhouse before starting production on their own premises.
Should be very interesting times.
Nige

 

[DanRayner]

The original Golden Ale was definitely a hand crafted beer at the Squire bar on swanston st and then it moved to the camperdown brewery in sydney.Which was when i stopped drinking it.The mainstream release party for the new GA they had was real disappointing for me and many of the other punters that where there.Circa 2003?

You say that like the James Squire Camperdown brewery is a massive faceless/nameless; it is a 5000L Brewhouse which makes it only twice the size of Zierholz in Canberra and a fraction of the size of Little Creatures. It's so small that when JS Amber and then Golden got popular they stopped brewing them there and started brewing those two (the two most popular JS brands) in the Tooheys brewery in Aselaide; while JS Pils, Porter, IPA, limited release and Mad Brewers stuff is all still brewed in the relatively small Camperdown brewery by a pretty small team of surprisingly dedicated brewers.

I guess it's all relatively where you draw the line for craft/sellout/popular...

 

[Filby]

I'm surprised that Port Dock Brewery in Pt Adelaide doesnt get a mention in either lists. Given that their milk stouts has won internationaly brewing awards and their Ginja is probably the best GB on tap anywhere in aus (IMO)!


Fil

 

[Hargie]

Definition of the beer market as according to Fosters/CUB is interesting - I read a report on their market share in the beer industry last year and they saw it only in the following terms: Full-Strength (VB, Tooheys New, Carlton Draught etc), Mid-Strength, Light and Premium

Premium was pretty much defined as everything else and was divided into "premium import" ie: Corona and "premium domestic" which was everything from Crown Lager and Stella Artois to Fat Yak, Little Creatures, Coopers and everything small than these. Premium was also a tiny section of the overall beer market like, around 8%? (also, it looks like that Wiki-link that I posted there also recognises these simple divisions of the beer market).

....I have it on very good authority that Craft Beer in Oz is about 1% of the market currently, of that 1% Squires, Matilda bay and Little Creatures make up 99%.....that leaves all the rest of us competing for 1% OF 1% of the Australian Beer Market.....things are changing but we have a long way to go folks....the US craft Beer market is about 5% by volume and about 7% by revenue of the US market....that 5% is bigger than the whole Australian market with the possible exculsion of CUB and Lion only...we are no where near the foothills of the mountain yet , but hey , bring it on, we've all got climbing boots.... :icon_cheers:

Scott
S&W

 

[DanRayner]

Hey Cougar, yup, that makes sense - cos the "Premium" beer that is 8% of the overall beer market includes Carlton Crown, Stella, Corona, Becks, Heineken etc and they would easily make up 87.5% of the this Premium beer sector.

We do have a long way to go but I'm glad you're at the coalface scott

 

[Hargie]

...'Tis a thisrty job too, Dan old son...Brewing at the JL today thinking ahead to yr visit, mate...

 

[BitterBulldog]

Murray's Nirvana #79.... boolsheeet!