Style Of The Week 21/6/06 - Altbier

[Stuster]

By request, the topic this week is Dusseldorf Altbier, style 7C in the BJCP style guidelines.

Alts (old in German) are made with ale yeasts and are fermented at ale temperatures but are lagered after fermentation. There are two styles of altbier, North German and Dusseldorf. Dusseldorf alts tend to have more hop bitterness and this may be why I chose this type of alt.

So tell us all you know about this style. Your best recipes, what grains, which hops (spalt or bust?), which yeast do you prefer? Techniques you use (decoctions? how long to lager? etc).

I'm not sure if there are any kits for this style, but have you managed to make something like an alt with kits'n'bits?

It would also be great to hear from those who have made the journey to Dusseldorf on the commercial examples? (not that far away for some on the board I guess.) Tell us all you know.

7C. Dsseldorf Altbier

Aroma: Clean yet robust and complex aroma of rich malt, noble hops and restrained fruity esters. The malt character reflects German base malt varieties. The hop aroma may vary from moderate to very low, and can have a peppery, floral or perfumy character associated with noble hops. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Orange-bronze to deep copper color, yet stopping short of brown. Brilliant clarity (may be filtered). Thick, creamy, long-lasting off-white head.

Flavor: Assertive hop bitterness well balanced by a sturdy yet clean and crisp malt character. The malt presence is moderated by high attenuation, but considerable rich and complex malt flavors remain. Some fruity esters may survive the lagering period. A long-lasting, dry, bittersweet or nutty finish reflects both the hop bitterness and malt complexity. Noble hop flavor can be moderate to low. No roasted malt flavors or harshness. No diacetyl. Some yeast strains may impart a slight sulfury character. A light minerally character is also sometimes present in the finish, but is not required.

Mouthfeel: Medium-bodied. Smooth. Medium to medium-high carbonation. Astringency low to none. Despite being very full of flavor, is light bodied enough to be consumed as a session beer in its home brewpubs in Dsseldorf.

Overall Impression: A well balanced, bitter yet malty, clean, smooth, well-attenuated copper-colored German ale.

History: The traditional style of beer from Dsseldorf. "Alt" refers to the "old" style of brewing (i.e. making top-fermented ales) that was common before lager brewing became popular. Predates the isolation of bottom fermenting yeast strains, though it approximates many characteristics of lager beers. The best examples can be found in brewpubs in the Altstadt ("old town") section of Dsseldorf.

Comments: A bitter beer balanced by a pronounced malt richness. Fermented at cool ale temperature (60-65F), and lagered at cold temperatures to produce a cleaner, smoother palate than is typical for most ales. Common variants include Sticke ("secret") alt, which is slightly stronger, darker, richer and more complex than typical alts. Bitterness rises up to 60 IBUs and is usually dry hopped and lagered for a longer time. Mnster alt is typically lower in gravity and alcohol, sour, lighter in color (golden), and can contain a significant portion of wheat. Both Sticke alt and Mnster alt should be entered in the specialty category.

Ingredients: Grists vary, but usually consist of German base malts with small amounts of crystal, chocolate, and/or black malts used to adjust color. Occasionally will include some wheat. Spalt hops are traditional, but other noble hops can also be used. Moderately carbonate water. Clean, highly attenuative ale yeast. A step mash or decoction mash program is traditional.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.046 - 1.054 1.010 - 1.015 35 - 50 13 - 17 4.5 - 5.2%

Commercial Examples: Altstadt brewpubs: Zum Uerige, Im Fchschen, Schumacher, Zum Schlssel; other examples: Diebels Alt, Schlsser Alt, Frankenheim Alt, Widmer Ur-Alt

 

[jayse]

This would easily be one of my favourite styles. I ussually make them at the very high end of the guidelines and even go over the 50 IBU given as the max for the style and take it up to 55 but in that I use a bit more munich malt than possibly they would in dusseldorf. Most ALTs' I have had froim other brewers are all made pretty much the same even up to 60IBU and quite a lot more munich malt than the 30% which is often giving as the ussuall amount used in dusseldorf.

I don't think the style really lends well to extract brews unless you do at least a small mash because you really need to use german munich malts. You want to mash as low as possible I mash at 64-65c, you want it very malty but still as dry as possible and not cloying or sweet.

I made a double batch once upon a time and split them between wyeast 1007 and wyeast 1338, being it was mashed very low the attenuation for both were pretty close even though generally wyeast 1007 is given as having more attenuation. I think the differences in attenuation between the two yeast would be more noticeable if you were to mash higher. Personally I liked the 1338 one better but really it was very hard to tell the two beers apart, since then I have used 1338 ussually but even once used wlp008 east coast ale which worked well but the other two yeast I think had more wow factor for the want of a better term.

The hops are pretty straight forward spalt all the way but I used santium an american hop with awesome results, I think tettnanger would work extremely well also. You want a peppery spice type hop I think.
Although you don't really need any finishing hops at all I put a tiny tiny addition at 5 mins, only around 5g in 25 litres.

Anyway if you only take one thing on board when brewing a dusseldorf ALT that should be don't skimp on malt, only use the best german munich malts. Ussually most brewers will use a bit of roasted malt at around 1% for colour, it does not matter at all what roast malt you use as you should not ever use enough to actually taste it only enough to bring up the colour. You want a portion of pilsner malt in there aswell.
Most dusseldorf commercial recipes I have read about are something like 70% pils 30% munich malt but I swap that the other way around and make a incredible beer. The only thing you need to make sure is you do get good attenuation and dry it out as much as possible, remembering maltiness and sweetness are two totally different things. IE you want dry malty not malty sweet and finally you want a distinctive high bitterness.

Thats about all I can think of right now.

Cheers
Jayse

 

[jayse]

Heres some links to some other threads about ALT on AHB. Might aswell put them in this thread.

Dusseldorf ALT recipe thread from AndrewQLD

Thread started buy halowords re ALT beer recipe

Thread started by myself when I was about to brew my first ALT

ALT thread started by MAH

Horse Called War
Jayse

 

[wee stu]

Thanks stu, for meeting my request! Looking forward to the responses, because my Alt brewing has thus far left a fair bit to be desired.

I have limited experience brewing the style, but it is slated to be my next brew, so my request had some alterior motive

I have been lucky enough to taste some wonderful examples from the Adelaide home brewing fraternity, including from an expatriot Dusseldorfian who should know something about the style.

From memory most of them seem to have echoed jayse's thoughts on malt composition, with an emphasis on munich over pilsner - up to as high as 100% munich, and spalt and tettnang the preferred hops.

My previous alt attempt used wyeast 1007 (surprise, surprise), and whilst it attenuated well it lived up to its reputation as a terrible flocculator. Even after extended condition and bottle age, I still had to call it my duck pond alt. Most disappointing, given that crystal clarity is one of the hoped for results. I'd be keen on hearing any tips on how to best deal with the low flocculant characteristics of the 1007 yeast. Next time I am going for 1338 European Ale, precisely because of its much better flocculation.

And, before I forget, Alt just happens to be one of the style specific classes in this year's ANAWBS comp. Last year the entries were relatively low, but the standards very high. The expat Dusseldorfer shared best beer of the show with one of his efforts.

FWIW, this is what I came up with last year for my effort. Any help would be much appreciated. Mashing a bit lower next time for a start.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Duck Pond Alt
Brewer: wee stu
Asst Brewer:
Style: Dusseldorf Altbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 15.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.20 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 67.4 %
1.20 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 25.3 %
0.25 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.3 %
0.10 kg Carafa II (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM) Grain 2.1 %
73.00 gm Spalter [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 38.5 IBU
25.00 gm Hallertauer [3.00%] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 4.75 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 12.39 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60 min


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[SteveSA]

Looks good to me Stu but drop your mash temp to 65-66C. I'm not a huge fan of the late hops either but that's me (I'll still enjoy the finished product )

Alt's a great style. It really lends itself to big malt and big bitterness! But keep it dry or it can become chewy and cloying.

I'm with Jayse as far the 70% Dark Munich goes + 1% for colour (Carafa prefered), but I prefer 20% Pils + 9% Melanoidin. No need for crystal when using this much Munich.

With so much Munich in there these percentages will easily take 50-60 IBUs and stay in balance.

For hops - I've always used Spalt and occasionally a small addition of Tetts around 20mins but recently have prefered just a single bittering addition. I've found the amount of bittering hops (around 80g) will still impart enough of a flavour contribution without the need for anything else.

In the ghetto with Stu
Steve

 

[user 384]

The hops are pretty straight forward spalt all the way but I used santium an american hop with awesome results, I think tettnanger would work extremely well also. You want a peppery spice type hop I think.
Although you don't really need any finishing hops at all I put a tiny tiny addition at 5 mins, only around 5g in 25 litres.

I've made a couple of Alts recently and have been pleased with the results. Each time I've used 100% Spalt with nothing other than a 60min addition. I really like this approach. Anyone who believes that the flavour impact of bittering hops is not important, try making an Alt that requires truck loads of hops at the start to get the desired bittering. I usually aim for around 45IBU's as I'm not as a enamel peeling freak that Jayse is. Nor do I bother with any late additions. As I said with sooo much low alpha nobel hops at the start of the boil, the resulting beer will definitely have a hop flavour.

Anyway if you only take one thing on board when brewing a dusseldorf ALT that should be don't skimp on malt, only use the best german munich malts.

Ditto. I stick with Weyermann malts all the way through.

Most dusseldorf commercial recipes I have read about are something like 70% pils 30% munich malt but I swap that the other way around and make a incredible beer. The only thing you need to make sure is you do get good attenuation and dry it out as much as possible, remembering maltiness and sweetness are two totally different things. IE you want dry malty not malty sweet and finally you want a distinctive high bitterness.

Ditto again. I use 70% Weyermann Munich type 1, 15% Weyermann Melanoidin (good for flavour and also colour at 70EBC) and 15 Weyermann Pils. I mash a tad higher at 65C-66C.

Alt has easily slipped into my staple beer list.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Doc]

First up I've never tasted an authentic Alt, but have done a lot of reading on the style to figure out what it may taste like to me.
This is my third rehash to create my impression of an Alt in the style of Zum Uerige.
I'll definitely be brewing this again, with the only change being a reduction in the hops at 60 mins.

Beers,
Doc

Doc's Alt III


Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.30
Anticipated OG: 1.058 Plato: 14.17
Anticipated EBC: 31.0
Anticipated IBU: 48.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 10.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 47.06 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.049 SG 12.13 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
38.7 3.60 kg. Powells Pilsner Malt Australia 1.037 3
35.5 3.30 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 20
10.8 1.00 kg. Weyermann Carahell Germany 1.035 26
7.5 0.70 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 7
6.5 0.60 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 125
1.1 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special II Germany 1.036 1100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
26.00 g. Spalter Pellet 4.50 9.2 First WH
110.00 g. Spalter Pellet 4.50 39.2 60 min.
54.00 g. Spalter Pellet 4.50 0.0 0 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Unit(s)Koppafloc Fining 10 Min.(boil)
2.00 Tsp Yeast Nutrient Other 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP036 Dusseldorf Alt

 

[wee stu]

Looks good to me Stu but drop your mash temp to 65-66C. I'm not a huge fan of the late hops either but that's me (I'll still enjoy the finished product )

I'm with Jayse as far the 70% Dark Munich goes + 1% for colour (Carafa prefered), but I prefer 20% Pils + 9% Melanoidin. No need for crystal when using this much Munich.

With so much Munich in there these percentages will easily take 50-60 IBUs and stay in balance.

For hops - I've always used Spalt and occasionally a small addition of Tetts around 20mins but recently have prefered just a single bittering addition. I've found the amount of bittering hops (around 80g) will still impart enough of a flavour contribution without the need for anything else.

Oh, and switching to 1338 as well

In the ghetto with Stu
Steve

That was my unadultarated version from last year.

Spookily, I was thinking very similar thoughts, ie lowering the mash temp, ditching the late addition and switching some melanoidin for the pilsner. Not sure why I had the wheat in there either.

With Steve, in the ghetto gutter, but looking to the stars

 

[Stuster]

Now this style is normally lagered before drinking, commercially at least. Due to various stuff-ups, I'd be very interested to know if any of you have have success brewing alts without lagering. I realise it's likely to be more estery without the lagering but will the beer still be drinkable? :lol:

 

[tdh]

Crystals aren't used in the D'dorfer Alt.

Use Munich and Melanoidin if you're not triple decocting.

Fuechschen in D'dorf uses no Munich or Melanoidin, only Pils and Chocolate and Hallertauer hops!

tdh

 

[jayse]

Now this style is normally lagered before drinking, commercially at least. Due to various stuff-ups, I'd be very interested to know if any of you have have success brewing alts without lagering. I realise it's likely to be more estery without the lagering but will the beer still be drinkable? :lol:

I don't think it needs actuall full on lagering at all in the true sense of being kept as close to freezing as possible for several months. I just treat it pretty much like most ales and cold condition at around 8-12c for 3-4 weeks and hoe into it. You should ferment at the bottom end of the yeast temp range and some people have even said using a lager yeast can yield great results, this maybe not true to the dusseldorf ALT beer but its also not something that doesn't merit some thought.


Alcohol fueled brewtality
Jayse

 

[doglet]

MMM MMM Alt Bier!

One of the nicest pub crawls I've had was last year in Dusseldorf. Malty/bitter beers to be had with subtle differences at each brewery.

Serving cask - these were rolled out of the cool room every few minutes and were basically continuously poured until empty.


Zum Uerige - Nice Alt!


Zum Schlussel - Girlfriend ordered a Pepsi here which raised the eyebrows of the waiter. He made a point of walking around all the tables from the bar to us saying "Pepsi, who ordered Pepsi?" before delivering - tongue in cheek of course. (She preferred Kolsch in Cologne)


Also went to Im Fuchshen which was my favourite.

Couple of points for Alt:
1. Served cold
2. Served in straight sided 200mL glasses
3. Nice high head (~1 inch thick)
4. Drink quick so you can have more!! :beer:

Never made an Alt myself but it might be next on the list!

 

[Steve Lacey]

some people have even said using a lager yeast can yield great results, this maybe not true to the dusseldorf ALT beer but its also not something that doesn't merit some thought.

I did it recently with a predominantly Northern Brewer hopped wort. The malt bill, mash schedule and hopping were all spot on for an alt. But I only had a lager yeast on hand and fermented at the intermediate end of the temperature range, about 14 degrees or a bit lower as I recall. It turned out quite pleasing, and while it might not be an alt by the books of a purist, I was happy enough to call it one.

 

[Stuster]

Thanks for the info, Jayse. In the thread you started there was a reference to a BYO article on alt, which you will be whisked too from here.

Interesting that alts are served in 200ml glasses, as is kolsch.

 

[Batz]

There is never a time that an Altbier is not on tap at Batz bar,one of my favorites for sure.
It's an easy beer to brew,that maybe because I brew it so often and don't mess with the recipe anymore

Batz

 

[Stuster]

C'mon Batz. :angry: Where's the recipe then?

 

[Tony]

after reading in the dry hop yeast thread about K97 being closer to an ALT yeast than a wheat yeast, is it worth using for this.

I have some in the fridge and dont think i will be using it for a wheat after what ive read.

cheers

 

[Voosher]

Bitter and malty like most of my favourite beers.
My first two were extracts partials but you really do need the pils/munich combination for mine.
Made my first couple too dark as well. Deep copper colour is my fave.
My basic now is:
45% Munich, 10% Melanoidin, 45% Pils plus a sprinkling of Carafa II for colour.
Bitterness at the high end of the style guidelines. BU:GU pretty close to 1:1.
Spalt @ 60m and 15m.
65C mash.
Wyeast 1007.
Cool ferment.
4 week conditioning.
Fairly conventional but some great ideas elsewhere here to try.
Must try more Munich less pils.
Must try Dark Munich and less Carafa.
Must make more Alt.
Must get to Dusseldorf.
Must get to Dusseldorf.
Must get to Dusseldorf.
Must get to Dusseldorf.
Must get to Dusseldorf.
Must get to Dusseldorf.

 

[wee stu]

FWIW, this is the one that finally made its way into my fermenter today.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Alter Ego Ale 2
Brewer: wee stu
Asst Brewer:
Style: Dusseldorf Altbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 31.51 L
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 15.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 50.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 91.5 %
0.20 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.3 %
0.20 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.3 %
0.11 kg Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (320.0 SRM) Grain 1.8 %
115.00 gm Spalter [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 50.3 IBU
1 Pkgs European Ale (Wyeast Labs #1338) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6.01 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 15.67 L of water at 75.5 C 65.6 C 75 min


The whole sad story of its birth can be found in the 4hr brewday? thread.

 

[Ross]

Brewed this one up today for the case swap - Ended up making a few alterations to my ANWABS entry.

Spalt Alt xmas case
Dusseldorf Altbier

Type: All Grain
Date: 7/11/2006
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Ross
Boil Size: 34.00 L
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.0

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.70 kg Munich II (22.0 EBC) Grain 68.5 %
0.65 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 12.0 %
0.45 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 8.3 %
0.30 kg Crystal, Dark (250.0 EBC) Grain 5.6 %
0.25 kg Carared (39.4 EBC) Grain 4.6 %
0.05 kg Carafa I (663.9 EBC) Grain 0.9 %
120.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (60 min) Hops 45.5 IBU
40.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (30 min) Hops 11.7 IBU
20.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (10 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
1.00 tsp calcium sulphate in the mash
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc
2 gm Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.5 %
Bitterness: 59.9 IBU
Est Color: 32.4 EBC
Mashed at 64C - Batch sparge.