Style Of The Week 21/6/06 - Altbier

[Asher]

I've never made an Alt without crystal, loving the bitter/sweet taste that using crystal & high IBU's gives & had always thought this is what the style called for.....

....Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.4 % ....

Sounds like a Sticke Alt Ross


I'm working on an Alt recipe ATM. I like the idea of a Sticke Alt with its more intensive late hopping... so my recipe will be more weighty with the late hops than a traditional Alt. %Alcohol up around 5.5 though.

Researching malt bills for this style is hard with commercial examples ranging from no Munich to 99% Munich. The question I pose is are we trying to mimic an all Munich Altbier with various crystal additions or are we trying to mimic various secret crystal additions by using Munich. :wacko:

From Scratch I'm going with

39.5% Weyermann Pilsner
49.4% Dark Munich
9.9% Melanoidin
1.3% Carafa Special III

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Bittering with Spalt
Flavour and aroma wise - Thinking this may be a good vehicle for some Vanguard hops I got a hold of from the US.

 

[jayse]

since daniels wrote that book we've found out that Zum Uerige uses crystal (and no munich)... plus other alt breweries do too. quite a common grist seems to be pils + caramunich + black. but it would be caramunich of course, not an english style crystal. and a small amount - if you taste ZU it is dry. i don't think it would be anywhere near the sickliness of those early 90s recipes though...like this one - http://byo.com/recipe/958.html - ugh. sweet amber ales should stay back in the early 90s with indecent obsession...

I remember when I posted about that I was thinking someone will sooner or later mention those tid bits.
Personally I like the way asher's is even without the melanoidin malt just straight munich II and pils it makes what I think are the best alts. Leave the crystal for the dunkel and bocks :super:

Of course it clearly can work with crystal I just love to rave about it not needing it.


Boozed, broozed and broken boned.
Jayse

 

[warrenlw63]

Just as a "slight" OT. Haven't made a heck of a lot of Alts but I've used quite a bit of Caramunich. To my tastes it produces a lot less of the toffee apple and cloying barley sugar flavours that most other crystals seem to produce. In fact it settles down nicely with the overall malt profile of the beer.

Small amount in an Alt would probably be less of a big deal than say equivalent amounts of Baird's or JW Crystal Malts.

I've used Caramunich II in amounts as high as 7% and found with all other parameters being correct the resultant beer still obtained a dry, well attenuated finish.

Still I guess the only way to set one's mind at rest would be an extensive pub crawl of Dusseldorf's Aldstat.

Warren -

 

[neonmeate]

I remember when I posted about that I was thinking someone will sooner or later mention those tid bits.
Personally I like the way asher's is even without the melanoidin malt just straight munich II and pils it makes what I think are the best alts. Leave the crystal for the dunkel and bocks :super:

Of course it clearly can work with crystal I just love to rave about it not needing it.
Boozed, broozed and broken boned.
Jayse

i agree totally... having tried a few different ways, just bread with no butter is the way to go for my alts...
but if you are going to use crystal malt IMO it should be German and a low %age.
of course it all depends on attenuation of the yeast too - if you are using European Ale yeast you definitely want to trim the fat off your grist.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

i agree totally... having tried a few different ways, just bread with no butter is the way to go for my alts...
but if you are going to use crystal malt IMO it should be German and a low %age.
of course it all depends on attenuation of the yeast too - if you are using European Ale yeast you definitely want to trim the fat off your grist.

I would disagree there regarding the European Ale yeast neonmeate. I have used this twice in the last 2 months and got attenuation of 80% and 78% in an Alt and an English IPA.
Both those beers had a dry finish but not overly dry if you know what I mean :blink: !

C&B
TDA

 

[neonmeate]

I would disagree there regarding the European Ale yeast neonmeate. I have used this twice in the last 2 months and got attenuation of 80% and 78% in an Alt and an English IPA.
Both those beers had a dry finish but not overly dry if you know what I mean :blink: !

C&B
TDA

well there you go, i could barely scrape 70% out of the stuff when i used it a couple of years ago... who knows what other factors there were though

 

[roger mellie]

Brendan,

My Alt about 3 recipes ago was the best i've made, had the grin factor from day 1 in the keg - Roger mellie was over here from WA for the night, the day after i kegged it & I'm sure will confirm it was a top drop. Tried to improve with the last 2 recipes & gone backwards, so hoping this one will have the grin factor again... Time will tell

cheers ross

Indeed I was - and can confirm that there was considerable grin factor - mind you Rossco - I was blown away by all of your beers - and by the end of the night had a permanent grin.

But I agree - and the comp results confirm - that that was a special beer.

I tried to emulate this - didnt have 'exactly' the ingredients and in fact instead of Northern Brewer used Centennial - (I can hear the style gurus mumbling)

But it worked - the keg evaporated.

As it happens I am doing another one this weekend.

Superb Style.

RM

PS - Brendanos - I wouldnt be putting acid malt anywhere near that grain bill. Just my opinion.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

hey all, i'm thinking i might brew one of these for the VIC x-mas in july case swap, was just wanting some feedback on a recipe


A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.55
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.28
Anticipated SRM: 18.9
Anticipated IBU: 43.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 29.68 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.038 SG 9.61 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
63.1 3.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
5.4 0.30 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 36
28.8 1.60 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 1.038 12
1.8 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special II Germany 1.036 558
0.9 0.05 kg. JWM Chocolate Malt Australia 1.032 381


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Spalter Spalt Pellet 5.50 33.5 80 min.
15.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.50 7.5 60 min.
25.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.50 2.1 5 min.


Yeast
-----

Danstar Nottingham


i noticed some of you first wort hopped with spalt, do you think it's worth it? i was also thinking of using sazz B, any reasons why i shouldn't?

cheers

-Phill

 

[neonmeate]

recipe looks good! should be on the roasty side, which i like in an alt.
no reason to restrict yourself to spalt. saaz B is a bit edgier and fruitier than the german nobles but might be an interesting change?
i wouldn't have a clue about nottingham as i have never used it but there is something unique about alt (and koelsch) yeasts - they're not just clean, they also have nice subtle esters and some have a bit of sulfur which add complexity and a long aftertaste... i would go the whitelabs koelsch or wyeast 1007 personally

 

[DarkFaerytale]

cheers neonmeate, i'll wait till i order to toss up between saaz or saaz b. i'll see how i go money wise in getting a liquid yeast, batz and (i think) Ross have had good results with nottingham at low temperatures in an alt. but i guess i could always make another alt or koelsch straight after the x-mas case batch to make up the cash.

-Phill

 

[Ross]

cheers neonmeate, i'll wait till i order to toss up between saaz or saaz b. i'll see how i go money wise in getting a liquid yeast, batz and (i think) Ross have had good results with nottingham at low temperatures in an alt. but i guess i could always make another alt or koelsch straight after the x-mas case batch to make up the cash.

-Phill

Phill,

Nottingham works great in an Alt - not saying it's equal to an alt liquid, but good enough, that i feel little urge to change...

cheers Ross

 

[facter]

well, my partial recipe is tasting great right out of the primary, im racking to secondary for three or so days thne into cc it goes ...

wish i had tasted more alts so I could make a comparison, but they only had one type in the IBS here - was nice though, but mine tastes a little different ...

its fairly spicy too - not much on hop flavour at all, which is good .. im thinking that the smaragd hops are giving it a little bit more of a hop spice punch in the background.


cant wait til its ready in a few weeks!

 

[clay]

Well, I 've been drinking my latest Alt in which I used US56 (at around 19*C) instead of my usual 1007 (at around 15*C) and must say I'm quite pleased with the results. I probably lacks to slight crispness of my previous efforts but I'm sue if I drop fermentaion temp and CC for a period I'll get pretty close to the mark.

clay

 

[therook]

Fellow Brewers,

I'm thinking of doing this for my Xmas Vic 2007 case swap, can i have your thoughts please


Rooks Alt
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 29/09/2007
Style: Dusseldorf Altbier Brewer: Rook
Batch Size: 27.00 L Assistant Brewer: Sammy boy
Boil Volume: 34.94 L Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % Equipment: Brew Pot (12.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Actual Efficiency: 13.7 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.40 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 70.3 %
1.30 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 20.8 %
0.50 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 8.0 %
0.06 kg Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (1400.0 EBC) Grain 1.0 %
90.00 gm Spalter [3.30%] (60 min) Hops 27.8 IBU
30.00 gm Spalter [6.60%] (30 min) Hops 14.2 IBU
1.00 tsp Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.051 SG (1.046-1.054 SG)
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.012 SG (1.010-1.015 SG)
Estimated Color: 29.0 EBC (25.6-33.5 EBC)
Bitterness: 42.1 IBU (35.0-50.0 IBU)
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.0 % (4.5-5.2 %)





Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 16.39 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 90 min


Rook :beer:

 

[devo]

I did my first Alt a few brews ago now and was very pleased with the result(recipe i posted on this site). I'm hoping to stop by Dsseldorf in a couple of weeks time to try it straight from the source.

 

[Stuster]

Looks very similar to an altbier I made a few months ago, therook, which I thought came out very well. Enjoy. :chug:

 

[drsmurto]

I actually brewed one of these on the weekend - my 2nd AG so i thought i would jump away from the APA i started with.

Rook - noticed the AA% of your spalter is doubled in the 2nd addition - is this a typo?

Got the recipe from Voosher over at Grumpys

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 28.62 L
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 25.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 49.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 49.59 %
2.40 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 39.67 %
0.60 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 9.92 %
0.05 kg Carafa II (811.6 EBC) Grain 0.83 %
100.00 gm Select Spalt [4.75 %] (60 min) Hops 46.4 IBU
20.00 gm Tettnang [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) [Starter 15Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.05 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 17.00 L of water at 73.5 C 66.0 C

Only problem is that i hit 75% efficiency but since i am over doing sparge water i still ended up with OG 1.048 but 30L instead of 25...... still got lots ot leanr but at least my mistakes havent killed the beer. Yet.

 

[therook]

I actually brewed one of these on the weekend - my 2nd AG so i thought i would jump away from the APA i started with.

Rook - noticed the AA% of your spalter is doubled in the 2nd addition - is this a typo?

Got the recipe from Voosher over at Grumpys

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 28.62 L
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 25.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 49.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 49.59 %
2.40 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 39.67 %
0.60 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 9.92 %
0.05 kg Carafa II (811.6 EBC) Grain 0.83 %
100.00 gm Select Spalt [4.75 %] (60 min) Hops 46.4 IBU
20.00 gm Tettnang [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) [Starter 15Yeast-Ale
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.05 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 17.00 L of water at 73.5 C 66.0 C

Only problem is that i hit 75% efficiency but since i am over doing sparge water i still ended up with OG 1.048 but 30L instead of 25...... still got lots ot leanr but at least my mistakes havent killed the beer. Yet.

Dr,

I got one lot from Ross which are marked 3.3 and another lot from Batz marked 6.6, i hope the markings are correct as it did pass my mind that there may be a mistake.

Rook

 

[Ross]

Dr,

I got one lot from Ross which are marked 3.3 and another lot from Batz marked 6.6, i hope the markings are correct as it did pass my mind that there may be a mistake.

Rook

This seasons crop was 3.3. Like all European hops their AA's were well down this year. 6+ would have been the previous seasons.

cheers Ross

 

[Quintrex]

This seasons crop was 3.3. Like all European hops their AA's were well down this year. 6+ would have been the previous seasons.

cheers Ross

\
Ross to what extent would you say the drought has affected the flavour/oils of the euro hops?

'Scuse the hijack