Style Of The Week 21/6/06 - Altbier

[Screwtop]

Brewed this one up today for the case swap - Ended up making a few alterations to my ANWABS entry.

Spalt Alt xmas case
Dusseldorf Altbier

Type: All Grain
Date: 7/11/2006
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Ross
Boil Size: 34.00 L
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.0

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.70 kg Munich II (22.0 EBC) Grain 68.5 %
0.65 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 12.0 %
0.45 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 8.3 %
0.30 kg Crystal, Dark (250.0 EBC) Grain 5.6 %
0.25 kg Carared (39.4 EBC) Grain 4.6 %
0.05 kg Carafa I (663.9 EBC) Grain 0.9 %
120.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (60 min) Hops 45.5 IBU
40.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (30 min) Hops 11.7 IBU
20.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (10 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
1.00 tsp calcium sulphate in the mash
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc
2 gm Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.5 %
Bitterness: 59.9 IBU
Est Color: 32.4 EBC
Mashed at 64C - Batch sparge.

1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale , Nicht deutsche hefe

 

[bindi]

Love Alt The yeasts I have used for this style are Wyeast 1007,2565 ,WLP 011 and want to try 036 if I can get some.

 

[therook]

Does anyone know of an ALT beer that can be bought here in melbourne from say a DM store?

wouldn't mind trying it.

rook

 

[warrenlw63]

Rookster

Closest thing I've seen is Diebels Alt at Grain and Grape... Not really a classic example of the style though. Not by any means.

From memory it doesn't even contain any Munich Malt. It's Pils malt coloured up with Roast. Kind of the VB of the Altbier world. :unsure:

Warren -

 

[neonmeate]

From memory it doesn't even contain any Munich Malt. It's Pils malt coloured up with Roast. Kind of the VB of the Altbier world.

duckstein is occasionally seen around too - basically an alt (but again a bigbrewery version). think i got it at purvis cellars a couple of years ago.

i don't think diebels is horrible - there are worse big brewery alts, like schlosser or kutscher or frankenwhatever it's called. but it's nothing like the real stuff. fwiw zum uerige doesn't have munich malt either (but then does have some crystal for some body).

but it's easy to brew your own alt that is better than anything you're likely to taste from a local bottleo. voosher's recipe above is a good start.

 

[brendanos]

I see your backing off the Munich II in your latest Alt Ross, did you find the bill you mentioned earlier in this thread to have too much melanoidin, or are you simply in a different mood?

I'm doing a lot of "alt" research at the moment to come up with something I think I'd like to drink, to be brewed in a few days, but don't want to be over-zealous on the darker/melanoidin rich malts, I want to be able to enjoy drinking it without it clinging to the roof of my mouth. Haven't brewed (or drunk) an Alt, but I do like malt-rich beers, and reading about them makes my mouth water.

So far I'm seriously considering...

1.0kg W Pils (18%)
1.5kg W Vienna (28%)
1.5kg W Munich I (28%)
1.0kg W Munich II (18%)
0.10kg W Acidulated (2%)
0.15kg W CMunich I (3%)
0.10kg W CMunich II (2%)
0.05kg W Carafa III (1%)

60mins 25g Horizon
30mins 10g Saaz
30mins 10g NZ Hallertau Aroma

48IBU
1.051 in 23L
Mash 64-65
Ferm Wy 1007 @ 17C

I feel like I should be adding some Melanoidin, I love the flavour/aroma it adds, though I think I might have enough in there as is (have only used munich I once before in a smaller quantity). Hops aren't particularly traditional, I'm confident they would go alright, so long as the HZ Hall doesn't have too much citrus flavour (haven't used yet).

Does anyone with experience in this style/with these malts have any cautions/advice for me? Do I need the crystal? More? Less?

Cheers!
Brendan

 

[brendanos]

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 91.5 %
0.20 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.3 %
0.20 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.3 %
0.11 kg Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (320.0 SRM) Grain 1.8 %

Haha wowee! How'd this go, Stu?

 

[Stuster]

No time to really comment on the whole grain bill, brendanos, but one thing jumps out at me. I can't see that you really need that acidulated malt. The dark malts will bring the pH down without it.

 

[brendanos]

It was more intended to be there for flavour, adding a little bite or zing to balance out the beer (ala zum uerige), though in hindsight in this proportion it would probably have little to no effect on the flavour. Maybe I'll do a mini sour mash instead.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I see your backing off the Munich II in your latest Alt Ross, did you find the bill you mentioned earlier in this thread to have too much melanoidin, or are you simply in a different mood?

I'm doing a lot of "alt" research at the moment to come up with something I think I'd like to drink, to be brewed in a few days, but don't want to be over-zealous on the darker/melanoidin rich malts, I want to be able to enjoy drinking it without it clinging to the roof of my mouth. Haven't brewed (or drunk) an Alt, but I do like malt-rich beers, and reading about them makes my mouth water.

So far I'm seriously considering...

1.0kg W Pils (18%)
1.5kg W Vienna (28%)
1.5kg W Munich I (28%)
1.0kg W Munich II (18%)
0.10kg W Acidulated (2%)
0.15kg W CMunich I (3%)
0.10kg W CMunich II (2%)
0.05kg W Carafa III (1%)

60mins 25g Horizon
30mins 10g Saaz
30mins 10g NZ Hallertau Aroma

48IBU
1.051 in 23L
Mash 64-65
Ferm Wy 1007 @ 17C

I feel like I should be adding some Melanoidin, I love the flavour/aroma it adds, though I think I might have enough in there as is (have only used munich I once before in a smaller quantity). Hops aren't particularly traditional, I'm confident they would go alright, so long as the HZ Hall doesn't have too much citrus flavour (haven't used yet).

Does anyone with experience in this style/with these malts have any cautions/advice for me? Do I need the crystal? More? Less?

Cheers!
Brendan

I agree with Stuster on the Acidulated malt, leave it out completely.
Also I don't reckon you need any Crystal malt in this style, don't get me wrong cause I have brewed some Alts with Crystal malt but prefer them without. They get in the way of the malty flavour of the Munich malts. Just replace them with more Munich 2.
I am not experienced with those hops so I can't comment except to say a great Alt is always brewed with 100% Spalt hops, IMHO anyway.

I am sure it will still be a good beer Brendan. Good luck with it :beer:

C&B
TDA

 

[facter]

im doing an alt tomorrow morning and i have the following german hops, i wasnt able to find any spalter .. im jsut finding it hard to figure out which of these to use - obviously i will use all of the tettnager but which of the others? Im thinking smargd atm for some as well

smargd (emerald) (80grams - not much info on this, used it in a weizen and it was nice, spicy)
saaz (100g)
Perle (80g)
tettnager (only 25g)
hallertau hersbrucker (25g)

which and what quantities would you recommend guys?

 

[Ross]

I see your backing off the Munich II in your latest Alt Ross, did you find the bill you mentioned earlier in this thread to have too much melanoidin, or are you simply in a different mood?

I'm doing a lot of "alt" research at the moment to come up with something I think I'd like to drink, to be brewed in a few days, but don't want to be over-zealous on the darker/melanoidin rich malts, I want to be able to enjoy drinking it without it clinging to the roof of my mouth. Haven't brewed (or drunk) an Alt, but I do like malt-rich beers, and reading about them makes my mouth water.

So far I'm seriously considering...

1.0kg W Pils (18%)
1.5kg W Vienna (28%)
1.5kg W Munich I (28%)
1.0kg W Munich II (18%)
0.10kg W Acidulated (2%)
0.15kg W CMunich I (3%)
0.10kg W CMunich II (2%)
0.05kg W Carafa III (1%)

60mins 25g Horizon
30mins 10g Saaz
30mins 10g NZ Hallertau Aroma

48IBU
1.051 in 23L
Mash 64-65
Ferm Wy 1007 @ 17C

I feel like I should be adding some Melanoidin, I love the flavour/aroma it adds, though I think I might have enough in there as is (have only used munich I once before in a smaller quantity). Hops aren't particularly traditional, I'm confident they would go alright, so long as the HZ Hall doesn't have too much citrus flavour (haven't used yet).

Does anyone with experience in this style/with these malts have any cautions/advice for me? Do I need the crystal? More? Less?

Cheers!
Brendan

Brendan,

My Alt about 3 recipes ago was the best i've made, had the grin factor from day 1 in the keg - Roger mellie was over here from WA for the night, the day after i kegged it & I'm sure will confirm it was a top drop. Tried to improve with the last 2 recipes & gone backwards, so hoping this one will have the grin factor again... Time will tell

cheers ross

 

[facter]

okay, well, heres the partial mash that I just did (its cooling now) .. i didnt have any spalt and i have limited amounts of german hops, so I used some perle an some smaragd - no idea how the smaragd will go but it is fairly spicy so we shall see.

Alternity (partial)



Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 22.00
Total Grain (kg): 3.88
Anticipated OG: 1.049


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name
38.7 1.50 kg. Generic LME - Light
2.6 0.10 kg. Crystal 40L
25.8 1.00 kg. Pale Ale Malt (2-row)
30.9 1.20 kg. Munich Malt
2.1 0.08 kg. Chocolate Malt


partial mash at 65c

Hops

Amount Name
28.00 g. Tettnanger Tettnang 60 min.
14.00 g. Smaragd 60 min.
9.00 g. Perle 60 min.
8.00 g. Czech Saaz 30 min.


Yeast
-----

Wyeat 1007


Og came in a few points too low so i added abut 100g of dry malt to take it up to 1051.

Got it as close as i could with my available ingrediants - havnt tried this one before so I guess Ill jsut cross my fingers and see how it goes - i opted for crystal as a guide from designing great beers, they said it was fairly common .. but i didnt put too much in, and also kept the chocolate malt down as much as possible.

 

[jayse]

- i opted for crystal as a guide from designing great beers, they said it was fairly common .. but i didnt put too much in, and also kept the chocolate malt down as much as possible.

While it may have been common with a huge amount of brewers in some home brewing circles back in the early 90s' I don't think many people would agree thats how it should be done, daniels even states way back then that he found no evidence that it is used commercially.

Anyway with only that small amount it shouldn't make much difference at all and as is it looks pretty good.


Enjoy
Jayse

 

[brendanos]

Brewing this tomorrow. Decided to keep it pretty simple.

All Weyermann

1kg Pils
1.5kg Vienna
1.5kg Munich I
1kg Munich II
50g Carafa Sp III

60 mins - 70g Spalt (26IBU), 10g Horizon (13IBU)
30 mins - 10g Spalt, 10g Hallertau, 1 plug Saaz (9IBU total)
20 mins - 20g Spalt (2.5IBU)

1.048 in 23L
Mash 64-65C
German Ale Yeast

Thanks for the input gents.

 

[clay]

I'm interested to know if anyone has had success brewing Alts with dried yeasts. Previously I've used 1007 but have just botled one using US56. At this stage it seems OK. Time will tell I guess.

I've also heard that K97 is close to an Alt yeast but don't know if anyone as actully used it for this.

Cheers
clay

 

[therook]

clay,

This is Batz's standard beer if i remember correctly and he uses dry yeast Danstar - Nottingham

rook :beerbang:

 

[neonmeate]

While it may have been common with a huge amount of brewers in some home brewing circles back in the early 90s' I don't think many people would agree thats how it should be done, daniels even states way back then that he found no evidence that it is used commercially.

Anyway with only that small amount it shouldn't make much difference at all and as is it looks pretty good.
Enjoy
Jayse

since daniels wrote that book we've found out that Zum Uerige uses crystal (and no munich)... plus other alt breweries do too. quite a common grist seems to be pils + caramunich + black. but it would be caramunich of course, not an english style crystal. and a small amount - if you taste ZU it is dry. i don't think it would be anywhere near the sickliness of those early 90s recipes though...like this one - http://byo.com/recipe/958.html - ugh. sweet amber ales should stay back in the early 90s with indecent obsession...

 

[Ross]

I've never made an Alt without crystal, loving the bitter/sweet taste that using crystal & high IBU's gives & had always thought this is what the style called for. Competition results make this one of my most awarded styles as well. Guess i'll have to make one without crystal & taste the results.
For the record, this latest one just put on tap is tasting beautiful IMHO.

Carbrook Alt
Dusseldorf Altbier
Type: All Grain
Date: 28/03/2007
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 35.31 L
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 41.1 %
1.50 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett) (5.9 EBC) Grain 24.6 %
1.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 16.4 %
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 8.2 %
0.30 kg Crystal, Dark (216.7 EBC) Grain 4.9 %
0.25 kg Carared (39.4 EBC) Grain 4.1 %
0.04 kg Chocolate Malt (1300.0 EBC) Grain 0.7 %
60.00 gm Northern Brewer [9.10%] (60 min) Hops 48.2 IBU
40.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (60 min) Hops 14.1 IBU
20.00 gm Spalter [4.00%] (5 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.061 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.4 %
Bitterness: 63.8 IBU Calories: 575 cal/l
Est Color: 29.3 EBC


cheers Ross

 

[neonmeate]

i like the collision of maltiness (melanoidins) with bitterness (malty but dry) but not really sweetness/fat crystal mouthfeel with bitterness... but we've all got different mouths.
i made one with dark crystal in the past and found it a bit hard going... but that richer dark crystal taste probably works better in a 6.4% alt than a 4.5% one like i made.