Stuck Sparges?

[stephen]

Agreed, everything in the article you have quoted is spot-on, for a brewery.

I am pretty sure if I start handing out grist with 30% flour I will have some very unhappy customers. On your own equipment with the same or similar grain bill you can get your system dialled in the way you like it I am cracking grain for around 20 mashers all of whom have differing systems.

We make provision for people to specify the type of grist they want and there is a lot of feedback. Its a learning thing for both the customers and the shop. We are always talking to customers to improve the results they get, the grist that works best in a herms system isnt an optimum crush for a batch sparger.

The point you make about steep conditioning is a good one. Pre-softening the husks should dramatically improve the size of the husk fraction. Naturally this option isnt one I can apply, unfortunately.

I think from memory Kunze suggests 1.6 - 0.8 - 0.4 mm gaps (give or take) for 5 and 6 roller mills, I have been trying to achieve similar results by multi passing the grain.

Some customers have reported 10-15% improvements in efficiency, just by changing the grist so hopefully we are on the right track.

MHB

As one of MHB's regular customers and with very primitive equipment (ie a 24 lt esky with a two bar copper manifold with an over the top of the esky syphon method) I regularly achieve greater than 80% efficiency, usually around 83%, I can say that, after 22 AG brews, I think he knows what he speaks of when it comes to the crush.

Cheers

Steve

 

[poppa joe]

Pumpy..
I strained..then ran through again..like your suggestions..Approx. 2.5 kilos (JW Pils malt.bit of.. crystal..caramunich.carapils..)16lt boil..got about 12lt..Just experimenting..Nothing specific in mind..Just beer.
Since updated mash tun..strainer..Give it another go ..shortly..
Stuff up was i think i killed the yeast..Have since played around with it ..Wait and see..
Cheers
PJ

 

[Tony]

Stephen. I will agree..... I have had a think about marks methods and i think will have a go at it.

Open the mill up to lightly roll the grain, then close it up a bit to crack it a bit more than close it up a bit more to get the final crush.

I agree with stu that a % of flour is needed in the grist to get good efficieny but is this needed because the remainder is to course to be any use to the mash???

I kind of think that my stuck mashes are due to fine flour in the grist and if i could get a grist of husks and very fine kermal bits (ahhhh i dont know the technical term and id spell it wrong anyway ) i think it would help and would need far less rice gulls.

might sacrafice a few KG of grain one night and do some trials with different base grains and different methods.

will take pics and post if i get time to do it.

cheers

 

[Tony]

"Tony damp grain crush method"

And pumpy....... It seems i got something credited to my name.....

I will die a happy man knowing i have contributed to the greater cause of better beer

cheers mate

 

[poppa joe]

TONY>>>>
PLEEEAASSSEEE DONT DIE>>
At least not till you tell me the tricks n trades ..of a Baaarley Crusher. .Then do what you like.. :blink:
Cheers
PJ

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

" The point you make about steep conditioning is a good one. Pre-softening the husks should dramatically improve the size of the husk fraction. Naturally this option isnt one I can apply, unfortunately. "


MHB...

All I can say is BULLLSHIT....Dont they have water in Maitland

You dont need much water and it only takes an extra 10 Mins

Unless you are doing brewery sized milling...

 

[bindi]

"Tony damp grain crush method"

And pumpy....... It seems i got something credited to my name.....

I will die a happy man knowing i have contributed to the greater cause of better beer

cheers mate

Yeah I do the"Tony damp grain method" if I am mashing straight [or vey soon] after the crush.
But for the life of me, can't find rice gulls <_< anywhere :blink: and I live on a beach with gulls everwhere.

 

[Tony]

Poppa joe..... i dont have a barley crucher, mine is home made, @ 2 inch diameter SS rollers, 10 inches long.

With a motor on it and speed reduction to a couple hundred RPM it eats 10 KG in a couple of minuites.

each beast has different results so i cant comment on the barley crusher other than to do what i plan on.

spend a few bucks on some grain and run it through at different settings to see waht it does..... it will be worth it come brew day.

I have gotten a feel for what is a good and what is a fine and what is a course cruch from experience.

I get lazy these days now that i have a house full of little kids and just crack it all the same and use the rice gulls if i need to.

cheers

edit: spelling to get this Sea gull of my back hehehehe

cheers all

 

[poppa joe]

TONY..
No worrys you can die happy now.
.BUT WAIT>>>I GOT a two roller 14 inch.mill waiting to go into action...May need some advice...PPPLLEEASSE
WAIT ......
Cheers
PJ

 

[TasChris]

I too suffered my first stuck sparge on the weekend.
I had a small length (about 2 inchs) of cheap crappy hose from the false bottom to the outlet of the mashtun. This could have closed up as I was underletting or it could have been a true stuck sparge.
I did crush ( I have a BC) quite quickly as the drill I use has poor speed control.
I have removed the crappy piece of hose from the system to see what the impact is.
A couple of quick questions
Is there an impact on the crush size due to crush speed?
How much water per kilo are people using to wet the grain prior to crushing?

Chris

 

[Screwtop]

Have been playing with roller gaps a bit lately and am convinced that the type of grain has a lot to do with stuch sparges. I find that using dark/roasted and grains without husks increases the likelyhood of stuck run off and sparge. Worst ever was when using carafa in the grist, a brown mud formed over the top of the grain bed and really slowed things down. May not have been solely the carafa as there was choc, black and wheat in the grist as well. Think from now on might treat the dark/roasted differently. Different gap and maybe steep them for only 30min or so. Should also limit astringency by not including them in a 90min mash.

 

[Kai]

" The point you make about steep conditioning is a good one. Pre-softening the husks should dramatically improve the size of the husk fraction. Naturally this option isnt one I can apply, unfortunately. "


MHB...

All I can say is BULLLSHIT....Dont they have water in Maitland

You dont need much water and it only takes an extra 10 Mins

Unless you are doing brewery sized milling...

I would guess that his customers would not like receiving mouldy grain. Pre-wetting is only a good idea if you're using the grain immediately.

 

[Gough]

" The point you make about steep conditioning is a good one. Pre-softening the husks should dramatically improve the size of the husk fraction. Naturally this option isnt one I can apply, unfortunately. "


MHB...

All I can say is BULLLSHIT....Dont they have water in Maitland

You dont need much water and it only takes an extra 10 Mins

Unless you are doing brewery sized milling...

I would guess that his customers would not like receiving mouldy grain. Pre-wetting is only a good idea if you're using the grain immediately.

Spot on Kai. I think Stu must have been having a bad day...

Stuck sparges suck. I've only had 3 so far, but one was on the big brew day in May this year - naturally it happens when you've got a yard full of brewers around It is interesting a few in this thread have touched on the Weyermann Munich malt as a culprit. I crack my own grain with a very basic little marga mill and all three stuck sparges I've had have been using Wey. Munich - it does indeed seem to powder up more easily for some reason. I've since gone more gently with the crush when using this malt and I haven't had a problem.

Shawn.

 

[MHB]

DS
Mate
I was referring to the problems like fungal outbreaks and lacto growth caused by putting wet malt in a plastic bag and heat sealing them, not with steep conditioning. Steep conditioning should improve a grist and if you are cracking grain at home it would be worth exploring.
There is no shortage in Maitland from what I hear; mind you thats a couple of town away from me here in Newcastle.

MHB

 

[Ross]

Worst ever was when using carafa in the grist, a brown mud formed over the top of the grain bed and really slowed things down. May not have been solely the carafa as there was choc, black and wheat in the grist as well.

Screwtop,

Carafa is dehusked, hence the powder you're getting. Cold steeping & adding to the top of the mash just before sparging would probably help if you have a fair bit in the recipe & no rice gulls on hand

cheers Ross

 

[Tony]

ahhhhh another comedian

i probably spelt that wrong too

My stout that stuck had about 7% roadt barly, 2% chocolate and the main one that i recon really helps a stuck sparge along...... flaked barley.

coupled with the german bast that goes to powder it was a sure thing.

eben got some nasty dough balling and it was underlet too.

will be much more cautious next time i use it.

cheers

 

[warrenlw63]

All I can say is BULLLSHIT....Dont they have water in Maitland

You dont need much water and it only takes an extra 10 Mins

Unless you are doing brewery sized milling...

Perhaps Ducatiboy stu is having trouble with those dreaded desmodromic valves and didn't read Mark's post correctly. :lol:

Warren -