Storage Questions

[bunz]

I was wondering if people could clear up some storage points for me.

I saw on Grumpy's site people discussing how long they left beer in a secondary. Some left it in the secondary until they needed it. This may be 3 or more weeks.

Now this makes sense to my uneducated mind. The beer is off the main trub (ie reducing the risk of autolysis) and is cloaked in a CO2 blanket.

But apparently this is a 'common misconception'. How is it different though to storing it in a clearing cube/ keg / bottle? I must be missing some finer point.

When it is OK to have it sitting on yeast for a long time? Why is it OK in this situation compared to others?

 

[deebee]

When you rack out of the secondary to bottle or keg or lager, you will see a fair bit of yeast cake at the bottom. So leaving your brew in the secondary fermenter is not really getting it off the yeast cake and not really eliminating risk of autolysis.

If you want to store it, rack again into a third vessel and store it very cold.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Secondary/cold conditioning periods depend on the type and strength of beers. Kit beers will benefit from 2 weeks very cold storage. My strong beers stay from 6-12 weeks in secondary, as do my lagers. all my beers get 3-4 weeks cold conditioning.

a simple bitter I did, just left it in the primary for 3 weeks. At winter night temperatures (in Adelaide) that was enough for that beer.

Storage must be cold and with as little ullage as possible





Jovial Monk

 

[Gough]

Please excuse my ignorance, but "ullage"? :blink: ? Definition greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Gough.

 

[bunz]

Isn't the English language great! There is a word for everything. Can't say I'd heard of ullage before.

Deebee, I hadn't thought of it in quite the manner you described. Thanks. Accordingly I will now adjust my methods.

But why is it different sitting on a yeast cake in a fermenter to sitting on a yeast cake in a bottle? Is it to do with the ullage Jovial Monk?

 

[kbekus]

Ullage - head space at the top of the container that (in terms of beer and wine) contains air, not CO2. You want to minimise contact between beer, wine and air whilst in storage so as not to let the liquid oxidise.

 

[Gough]

Thanks very much for that Kbekus.

Gough.

 

[deebee]

Bunz,

Dunno. But I guess it's to do with the quantity of the sediment.

 

[bunz]

Err sorry for being a bit thick about this. I just need to restate what I think I've read to make sure I've got it straight.

1.) If you take if off the trub after FG has been achieved then it can be stored for an extended period, ie the less sediment the better
2.) CC / lagering increases the length of time things can be stored for but its primarily to improve taste / quality.

This one I am a little sketchy on:
3.) Head space / ullage will eventually lead to oxidisation (even though there is a CO2 blanket?)

 

[Trev]

Bunz,

The point that Tom was making about ullage is that if you rack off into another container, and I suppose it applies as well to storage cubes as it does to bottles, and if FG has been achieved then there will be little or no further fermentation and hence no more CO2 produced.

Obviously if you're bottling then normally you prime the bottles, secondary fermentation occurs and a nice head space of CO2 forms in between the beer and the little bit of O2 in the neck of the bottle.

Trev

 

[kbekus]

I remember reading somewhere in some CAMRA text or whatever about putting a small (tablespoon?) amount of fermentable such as dextrose or DME into the storage vessel along with the racked brew, so that it would be consumed and create a CO2 blanket to displace the oxygen. This was for longer term storage....

 

[jayse]

does anyone know what affects oxygen may have on the beer in a storage container.ie what tastes will you notice will it have a strange mouthfeel etc.does it imediatly start having a bad effect or does it take a long amount of time, like more time than a good beer will last anyway.
is it the same for cold beer and warm beer?
real ale typically only lasts a week before affects of the air become to much in the cask because while it is being emptied their is more air sucked in.but this must be different to a fermentor or C.C cube were the head space remains the same for weeks what oxygen is in their can it be all that bad?also the top layer of beer in a container is not like a keg laying down for real ale were a maximum of wort has contact with the air.it seems in a fermentor or cube there is ony 1/2 a litre excposed at the top.
many questions. i know.

better to know exxactly why not to do things like this than just be told not to do it because it will oxidize your beer etc.
so someone tells you that you will oxidize your beer if you dont do it this way etc.do you just exept that and continue or do you ask but what effect will oxidizing the beer have.

anyone tasted a beer that has been adversely affected by air?