Sterilizing

[altone]

Forgive my ignorance and laziness please.

I have been brewing since about January. I am starting to get some good results from only extract kits.
The only sterilisation options I have found in my local brew shop is a mangrove jacks no rinse. It’s in a small bottle that lasts maybe 4-5 brews, maybe.
It costs $6 a bottle .

Obviously there are better options available but I’m wondering how everyone buys their stuff? Is it mainly online that you get cleaning chemicals? And what companies are best for this in your experience?

P.s. sorry for being so lazy.

Try some of our sponsors.
I used to buy a lot of stuff like that from Craftbrewer and they were always great, but now I buy consumables and ingredients from a not so local home brew store mainly.

Oh btw my preferred cleaner would be PBW and sanitizer would be Starsan

 

[wide eyed and legless]

For the last 6 years I have been using Proxitane, difficult to get in small quantities, Anpross in Bayswater Victoria sell it 2 litres, as do KegKing 1 and 5 litres brilliant as a line cleaner as well. Heaps of Phosphoric sanitisers around if you go down that track and it contains dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid be sure to let it dry.

 

[BadBeatSab]

For the last 6 years I have been using Proxitane, difficult to get in small quantities, Anpross in Bayswater Victoria sell it 2 litres, as do KegKing 1 and 5 litres brilliant as a line cleaner as well. Heaps of Phosphoric sanitisers around if you go down that track and it contains dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid be sure to let it dry.

I’m a bit noob to understand most of those words. lol.
But thanks for your reply.

 

[altone]

Proxitane is Peracetic acid - just google it.
It's a great product btw.

@wide eyed and legless dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid is used as part of a no rinse and not dried sanitizer in many food industry scenarios.
What is your concern with it exactly?
It's used in many laundry products too although the clothes are dried of course

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Proxitane is Peracetic acid - just google it.
It's a great product btw.

@wide eyed and legless dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid is used as part of a no rinse and not dried sanitizer in many food industry scenarios.
What is your concern with it exactly?
It's used in many laundry products too although the clothes are dried of course

It is also used in insecticides, it is used in cosmetics, probably as a cleaning agent, not sure. Food industry yes in America, (if you have money you can get anything through the system there) not in Australia, nor EU is it used in food or food preparation, I believe it is used in abattoirs in the EU to wash benches but has to be thoroughly rinsed afterwards.
As for not drying, yes it should be air dried before use. https://beerco.com.au/products/star-san
I do still use it, but just for washing my plant pots

 

[altone]

It is also used in insecticides, it is used in cosmetics, probably as a cleaning agent, not sure. Food industry yes in America, (if you have money you can get anything through the system there) not in Australia, nor EU is it used in food or food preparation, I believe it is used in abattoirs in the EU to wash benches but has to be thoroughly rinsed afterwards.
As for not drying, yes it should be air dried before use. https://beerco.com.au/products/star-san
I do still use it, but just for washing my plant pots

It's essentially used as a surfactant as far as cleaning goes and was definitely used in the dairy industry 5 years ago (Maybe it wasn't meant to be so I will not say how I know that)
One of the things I like about Starsan is the foam keeps working after you dump the liquid out, but if you let it dry?

Maybe I'll dig around the interwebs a bit more, see if I can find a good reason it should be done that way.
Or by air dry do they just mean leave it for a minute or 2. Hmmm

As for my plant pots I just smack em with pool chlorine then wash them out.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Yes I used to use chlorine on my pots but I have some phosphoric sanitiser left so I will use that up before going back to chlorine.
I think it, (phosphoricsanitizer) may have been a 'No No' in the dairy industry here, though I have read of it being used in tankers not sure if it was rinsed afterwards.
Just for the cleaning of premises now. https://apvma.gov.au/node/4176

 

[altone]

Yes I used to use chlorine on my pots but I have some phosphoric sanitiser left so I will use that up before going back to chlorine.
I think it, (phosphoricsanitizer) may have been a 'No No' in the dairy industry here, though I have read of it being used in tankers not sure if it was rinsed afterwards.
Just for the cleaning of premises now. https://apvma.gov.au/node/4176

Well someone I may or may not know has seen it used way beyond that
Regardless, is there a specific health issue that you know of or are we talking best practices?
We all break that one methinks

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Well someone I may or may not know has seen it used way beyond that
Regardless, is there a specific health issue that you know of or are we talking best practices?
We all break that one methinks

Specific health issues are that it hasn't been tested for specific health issues.

 

[Cheap Drunk]

Hey guys, I have a question about infected beer. One of my recent brews had what looked exactly like the photos of lacto infections I've seen. I bottled anyway, taking care to leave the last few litres on top. In some ways it's the best I've made. Perfectly carbed, great colour, good mouth feel. It tastes alright but it's definitely weird. And the smell...very unusual. I can't disconnect it from the sight that greeted me in the FV, so basically mould. So leaving aside whether it's a good beer or not, is it going to make me sick?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Won't make you sick, what are you sanitising with?
Here is what Martin Brungard had to say on Homebrewtalk.

Peracetic acid (PAA) is a very useful and safe sanitizer when used at low concentrations. Only about 100 ppm PAA is sufficient to kill virtually all microorganisms.

The presence of acetic acid aroma is not a surprise. It turns out that PAA exists in equilibrium with its two main constituents: acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide. The acetic acid is not a problem in brewing and if PAA is used as a spray or is drained from the equipment, there won't be a flavor impact to the beer.

While the PEL is low, the warning signs of exposure are unmistakable and should be sufficient to get the user to avoid excessive and adverse exposure. If your eyes water or your nose or mouth mucous membranes are irritated, then you need to get away from that area. Spraying the solution in a ventilated area should keep most users out of a hazardous situation.

PAA is widely used in many food and beverage industries including brewing and should be used more by homebrewers.

 

[altone]

Won't make you sick, what are you sanitising with?


PAA is widely used in many food and beverage industries including brewing and should be used more by homebrewers.

If only the local homebrew shops sold it in small quantities like a 500ml bottle
Most suppliers want to sell 25litres a few have 5l bottles too
One I found has 1l bottles that cost as much as 5l

 

[wide eyed and legless]

5 litres is a lot, more for small breweries. 1 litre bottles will be coming available soon for $16, I would suppose it would filter down to other home brew stores, though shipping could present a problem.

 

[altone]

5 litres is a lot, more for small breweries. 1 litre bottles will be coming available soon for $16, I would suppose it would filter down to other home brew stores, though shipping could present a problem.

Now that would be more like it! I was quoted $52 for the 1l and $56 for the 5l.

 

[Cheap Drunk]

Won't make you sick, what are you sanitising with?
Here is what Martin Brungard had to say on Homebrewtalk.

Peracetic acid (PAA) is a very useful and safe sanitizer when used at low concentrations. Only about 100 ppm PAA is sufficient to kill virtually all microorganisms.

The presence of acetic acid aroma is not a surprise. It turns out that PAA exists in equilibrium with its two main constituents: acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide. The acetic acid is not a problem in brewing and if PAA is used as a spray or is drained from the equipment, there won't be a flavor impact to the beer.

While the PEL is low, the warning signs of exposure are unmistakable and should be sufficient to get the user to avoid excessive and adverse exposure. If your eyes water or your nose or mouth mucous membranes are irritated, then you need to get away from that area. Spraying the solution in a ventilated area should keep most users out of a hazardous situation.

PAA is widely used in many food and beverage industries including brewing and should be used more by homebrewers.

Mostly I've been using di San between brews and haven't had a problem. After the infection I used di San and whatsy metabisulphite. Have had several brews since with no problem. I intend to get starsan or stellar San soon. Thanks for the info. I've actually had a few of them and haven't crapped out my innards but still it's good to get the thumbs up.

 

[altone]

Mostly I've been using di San between brews and haven't had a problem. After the infection I used di San and whatsy metabisulphite. Have had several brews since with no problem. I intend to get starsan or stellar San soon. Thanks for the info. I've actually had a few of them and haven't crapped out my innards but still it's good to get the thumbs up.

Oh geez Disan is more a cleaner than a sterilizer. Go the stellar/Starsan way as soon as you can - or peracetic acid, but Starsan clones are cheap and easily available.
And if it's a lactic infection it's not likely to kill you if you drink it

 

[Cheap Drunk]

Oh geez Disan is more a cleaner than a sterilizer. Go the stellar/Starsan way as soon as you can - or peracetic acid, but Starsan clones are cheap and easily available.
And if it's a lactic infection it's not likely to kill you if you drink it

I realize it's not a sanitizer but the sodium metabisulphite is. It's not no rinse but I just rinse thoroughly and wipe everything dry with a clean paper towel. I do that every few brews or if there's been some time between brews. I still have a fair bit left.

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

So would paa be a good choice for filling a keg then using C02 to push it out for getting rid of oxygen? Or would the remaining amount cause a flavour issue?

 

[altone]

I realize it's not a sanitizer but the sodium metabisulphite is. It's not no rinse but I just rinse thoroughly and wipe everything dry with a clean paper towel. I do that every few brews or if there's been some time between brews. I still have a fair bit left.

Sodium Meta isn't really a sanitizer much more than Disan/percarb - They do have sanitizing effects but probably not to the extent of true sanitizers.
And if you rinse after - what with? water still at 100C or was boiling but now cooler water (like I do)
I'd rather spend ten bucks on some real sanitizer than run the gauntlet of should be ok and lose $50 of ingredients if it wasn't.

edit Oh @FarsideOfCrazy good question, although if you're only leaving a few ml in the keg I'd suspect the acetic taste/smell wouldn't cause an issue.
WEAL should know - uses it all the time.

 

[Cheap Drunk]

Sodium Meta isn't really a sanitizer much more than Disan/percarb - They do have sanitizing effects but probably not to the extent of true sanitizers.
And if you rinse after - what with? water still at 100C or was boiling but now cooler water (like I do)
I'd rather spend ten bucks on some real sanitizer than run the gauntlet of should be ok and lose $50 of ingredients if it wasn't.

edit Oh @FarsideOfCrazy good question, although if you're only leaving a few ml in the keg I'd suspect the acetic taste/smell wouldn't cause an issue.
WEAL should know - uses it all the time.

I'm surprised to read that as it actually says it's a sterilizer. We all know that's not possible but I did think it would be a decent sanitizer. I've just been rinsing with tap water. After all, that's what I'm using to make the beer. And when I start a brew I boil the kettle and pour it over every internal surface.
I understand what you're saying but I rarely have more than $20 worth of ingredients.