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Sterilizing

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Thomas Wood

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Feels like you spruik your wares at every opportunity, could've sworn that this was against forum rules...
I'm not sure about forum rules, but I don't have a problem with it when directly above they have 2 comments, each with 300+ words in them, giving some good information and advice.
 

MHB

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I could be wrong but doesn't sodium percabonate break down after 4 hours? I'm curious to know if that applies to sodium metasilicate and sodium metabisulfite as I use them also.
Sodium Percarbonate will disassociate (slightly more accurate than "break down ") into Peroxide H2O2 (that's the steriliser) and Sodium Carbonate (its the cleaner, AKA Washing Soda). The rate it happens, how effective it is and the amount of time the Peroxide is available is largely temperature dependant, as with most chemical reactions the hotter the faster.
Sodium Metasilicate helps Percarbonate work better, its helps remove soil and acts as a wetting agent. One other effect is it acts to protect metals, particularly Copper, Brass and Aluminum, from the effects of strong alkaline cleaners, worth thinking about if you are using an Al pot or have brass fittings in your system. Metasilicate is a common admixture in "Brewery Cleaners" PPW, BBW...
The cleaning action is still going on while there is Sodium Carbonate available (yonks) the peroxide is pretty unstable so yes you would be brave to assume it was an effective steriliser for long (personally I wouldn't think so after half an hour).
If I were using Perk as a soak clean (which I do) I would use a finishing steriliser. I'm a lot more careful what I regard as a no rinse sanatiser so properly diluted pure Phosphoric, Peroxide, Ethanol sure, stuff with detergent and halogens (F, Cl, Br, I) no way so a no to StarSan and Iodophor.
Mark
 

MHB

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As a "NO Rinse" wouldn't even think of it, no doubt its effective enough as a sanitiser (so are lots of things) but there is no beneficial amount of low-grade industrial detergent I want to add to my beer, so would I treat it as no rinse - no way!
Mark
 

KegLand-com-au

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Hey guys. This is a topic that we just covered on our video here:


Now clearly we are biased and we are selling these products. With that said we are just about to do a 2 for 1 deal on a couple cleaners and sanitisers so if you were to like our Facebook page you would be able to see this discount code when it comes available in a couple weeks.

Let us know what you think of the video and if we have accidentally left anything out. We tried to cover as much as possible but the video was already getting a bit too long.
 
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Just goes to show how funny life is, we can walk into Bunnings or a garden centre to get some pesticide and carefully read the active ingredients to much chemical base and its put back on the shelf.
Yet come across a no rinse steriliser which has a pesticide (Dodecylbenzene) as an active ingredient, not only is it a pesticide but is also linked to being carcinogenic and it is used as a no rinse sanitiser.
Can't beat good old peracetic acid only 1ml per litre and the best bit is, after an hour it has gone without a trace.
 
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Hey Fellas,
Not sure if it's been mentioned but I just use Milton Tablets, Same as they use for Baby Bottles. 2 tablets per 4 litres and is no rinse Sanitizer I figure if they can use it for babies right from the start must be good enough for my beer, and touch wood no infections to date.

regards,
Norto.
 
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DU99

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Milton i used when first did bottles,gets a bit expensive and solution only good for 24 hours..where starsan and iodophor sanitizer you could use again and the cost was very small
 
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Milton i used when first did bottles,gets a bit expensive and solution only good for 24 hours..where starsan and iodophor sanitizer you could use again and the cost was very small
Did you use the tablets or the bottle of solution?
upload_2018-9-17_9-24-11.png

Only uses 2 tablets for 4 Litres, I have always used it, how does it compare to something like Starsan for price?
 

Rocker1986

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I paid $10 or $15 for a 125mL bottle of Starsan 6 years ago and still have just under half of it left.
 

KegLand-com-au

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Just goes to show how funny life is, we can walk into Bunnings or a garden centre to get some pesticide and carefully read the active ingredients to much chemical base and its put back on the shelf.
Yet come across a no rinse steriliser which has a pesticide (Dodecylbenzene) as an active ingredient, not only is it a pesticide but is also linked to being carcinogenic and it is used as a no rinse sanitiser.
Can't beat good old peracetic acid only 1ml per litre and the best bit is, after an hour it has gone without a trace.
Can you please let us know where you get the information that the LABS acid is carcinogenic? Its approved by the FDA and also used in a wide range range of cleaning products that you find at the supermarket. Labs acid is also used by Five Star Chemicals in the StarSan product which is the most used sanitiser in America. Of you have determined that LABS acid is carcinogenic I would also assume you have some peer reviewed papers on this as well you can point us in the direction of?

I should also say that dodecylbenzene is a precursor to many different chemical compounds including the LABS acid that is found in both Star San and our sanitiser. Perhaps you are getting confused with other compounds that also use dodecylbenzene as an element in those products as it's a widely used in literally thousands of products and many that you would already have around the house.
 
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KegLand-com-au

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Did you use the tablets or the bottle of solution?
View attachment 113575
Only uses 2 tablets for 4 Litres, I have always used it, how does it compare to something like Starsan for price?
I could be wrong but to our understanding Milton Tablets use chlorine as the killing agent. So for the same reasons we do not recommend the use of bleach we would also not recommend the use of Milton Tablets. The taste threshold for Chlorine is so very low that even small concentrations can be noticeable in the finished beer.

Many brewers go to extreme efforts to remove very small concentrations of chlorine from the water prior to use it for brewing for the same reason. To go to this type of effort then to add chlorine into the fermenter as a non rinse sanitiser would be a bad idea in our opinion.
 

FarsideOfCrazy

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Just goes to show how funny life is, we can walk into Bunnings or a garden centre to get some pesticide and carefully read the active ingredients to much chemical base and its put back on the shelf.
Yet come across a no rinse steriliser which has a pesticide (Dodecylbenzene) as an active ingredient, not only is it a pesticide but is also linked to being carcinogenic and it is used as a no rinse sanitiser.
Can't beat good old peracetic acid only 1ml per litre and the best bit is, after an hour it has gone without a trace.

Are you peddling myths again? A quick Google of said 'pesticide' reveals its not a pesticide but a detergent base. I have heard that some pesticides have detergent in them so they stick to waxy leaves. I've added dish washing liquid to achieve this.

Like KL have asked, post the peer reviewed scientific papers that back up your post, I'm sure the FDA in America would love to see it.
 
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Are you peddling myths again? A quick Google of said 'pesticide' reveals its not a pesticide but a detergent base. I have heard that some pesticides have detergent in them so they stick to waxy leaves. I've added dish washing liquid to achieve this.

Like KL have asked, post the peer reviewed scientific papers that back up your post, I'm sure the FDA in America would love to see it.
If it is a biocide it has the potential to be a pesticide, which it is, and it is used in plenty of household detergents but it is not mixed with beer and ingested, it has been LINKED to gastric cancer but as with most links they have to be proved check out what the maximum dilution rate is, and how many brewers are towing the line on the dilution rate? Proxitane is the Pro brewers go to biocide and I am all in favour of that. If you think I am having a crack at KL well KK has a similar product, I just don't like the idea of ingesting something that has not been proven either way to be or not be a carcinogen.
At the end of the day we are making a class A carcinogen, just prevents the double whammy keeping away from products produced from benzine.
 

EmptyB

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If you think I am having a crack at KL well KK has a similar product
I guess it's just a coincidence that you only cared to share this information immediately following KegLand's response to the thread then?
 
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I could be wrong but to our understanding Milton Tablets use chlorine as the killing agent. So for the same reasons we do not recommend the use of bleach we would also not recommend the use of Milton Tablets. The taste threshold for Chlorine is so very low that even small concentrations can be noticeable in the finished beer.

Many brewers go to extreme efforts to remove very small concentrations of chlorine from the water prior to use it for brewing for the same reason. To go to this type of effort then to add chlorine into the fermenter as a non rinse sanitiser would be a bad idea in our opinion.
Yeah... Can't say that I have ever tasted it in the finished product but has worked for me for the last 4 years so I shan't be changing anytime soon. Although maybe I should use starsan at least once and see if there is a difference.
 

Rocker1986

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If you allow the stuff to dry completely before putting wort or beer in it, the chlorine probably disappears anyway. That said, I prefer not using chlorine based things unless I absolutely have to.
 
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