Speciality Grain - How Much?

[Reon]

Hi,

How much speciality grain would be too much?

1 Kit
2Kg steeped grains???
hops

Thanks

 

[razz]

What type of spec grain are you thinking of using Reon?

 

[manticle]

What type of grain, what type of kit, what type of hops, what type of beer you're hoping to make etc etc.

Malt flavour to hops ratio is also important.

And volume of final product.

 

[Reon]

Thinking of basic lager kit prob coopers. carapils and carared with hallertau. With w34/70 or s189

23L

 

[razz]

I think 2 kgs wil be way over the top for those malts. Try a few 100 gms of each and the balance of the 2 kgs in base malt.

 

[Reon]

I think 2 kgs wil be way over the top for those malts. Try a few 100 gms of each and the balance of the 2 kgs in base malt.

thats what I thought. So the upper limit would be 300 - 500 gm per 23L batch?

 

[razz]

300 at the very most.

 

[PostModern]

In an all-grain beer, 5-10% is plenty, according to style and taste. Same ratio works in kits, but tend toward the lower end of the range.

 

[Reon]

I have 2.7 kg which by the time I use them all at that rate they wont be fresh. I was thinking of steeping them and then freezing into relative portion sizes. By my reckoning that should be ok but not sure.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I have 2.7 kg which by the time I use them all at that rate they wont be fresh. I was thinking of steeping them and then freezing into relative portion sizes. By my reckoning that should be ok but not sure.

I was gonna buy 5kg but they come in vaccuum sealed bags and apparently should stay fresh enough for a few months unopened. At about 2 or 3 bux a 500g bag i'll put milk on them and have the extras for breakfast if they're gonna be no good.

 

[Bribie G]

I have Carafa t3 malt in my beer fridge that has been going since September last year and there's nothing wrong with it. If you keep your specialty grains airtight and cool they will keep for months. Especially coming into winter it shouldn't be a worry. In any case I find that with the relatively small amounts in all-grain brews I would find no real advantage in buying 5k lots, often I just get 500g of malts such as Carared or Melanoidin that keep me going for several brews.

 

[ianh]

In an all-grain beer, 5-10% is plenty, according to style and taste. Same ratio works in kits, but tend toward the lower end of the range.

Interesting as in the Book "Brewing Classic Styles" by Zainasheff and Palmer they use up to 35% specialty grains (Nutty Man Brown Ale) and commonly are using 15-20% in their extract recipes.

 

[PostModern]

Interesting as in the Book "Brewing Classic Styles" by Zainasheff and Palmer they use up to 35% specialty grains (Nutty Man Brown Ale) and commonly are using 15-20% in their extract recipes.

What sort of specialty grains?

I was referring specifically to crystal. Ooops. Cara* I count as crystal as well. Brown, amber, carafa special, roast malt, etc in combination can of course go higher, but carared, light/dark crystal, etc no way 30%.

 

[The Big Burper]

How much?



With a kit, 3g per liter, max 100g per brew, unless you like sweet crap. :unsure:

cheers
Dave

 

[ianh]

What sort of specialty grains?

I was referring specifically to crystal. Ooops. Cara* I count as crystal as well. Brown, amber, carafa special, roast malt, etc in combination can of course go higher, but carared, light/dark crystal, etc no way 30%.

I suppose the first thing that needs sorting out is whether the percentage is weight or as a percentage of OG in this case weight.

Nutty Man Brown Ale

English Pale Ale LME 2.26 Kg 64.5%

Crystal 80L 0.45 Kg 12.9%
Crystal 120L 284 g 8.1%
Special Roast 50L 227 g 6.5%
Pale Chocolate 200L 170 g 4.8%
Carafa Special II 430L 113 g 3.2%

Golding Hops making a batch of 26.5 litres (7 Gal US).

I hope you can put 500 grams in a 23 litre batch as my next planned brew is an American Amber Ale

Light DME 2.6 Kg 83.9%
CaraAroma 0.3 Kg 9.7%
Carared 0.2 Kg 6.4%

Hopped with Amarillo

cheers

Ian

 

[buttersd70]

How much?



With a kit, 3g per liter, max 100g per brew, unless you like sweet crap. :unsure:

cheers
Dave

Sorry, BB, but thats utter rubbish. It comes down to balance. Sweetness is balanced by one of, or a combination of, two things; bitterness, and dryness (or roast/astringency). One is imparted by hops, and the other by.....specialty grains. Grains that give a roast element. You can use quite a lot of sweeter grain, if it is balanced with a combination of hopping and roast grain. Give me a beer thats sweet on the start of the palate, mellowing to a base malt and hop flavour, and then finishing on a dry note that washes the sweetness away.....Noice.

There is a limit, obviously, but to say that 100g/23L batch is the max you can go is complete and utter madness imo.

 

[tcraig20]

There is a limit, obviously, but to say that 100g/23L batch is the max you can go is complete and utter madness imo.

Ive made kit beers that I quite enjoyed that were 500g/23L...

 

[RdeVjun]

Sorry, BB, but thats utter rubbish. It comes down to balance. Sweetness is balanced by one of, or a combination of, two things; bitterness, and dryness (or roast/astringency). One is imparted by hops, and the other by.....specialty grains. Grains that give a roast element. You can use quite a lot of sweeter grain, if it is balanced with a combination of hopping and roast grain. Give me a beer thats sweet on the start of the palate, mellowing to a base malt and hop flavour, and then finishing on a dry note that washes the sweetness away.....Noice.

There is a limit, obviously, but to say that 100g/23L batch is the max you can go is complete and utter madness imo.

I'll second that, Butters. (Surprise, surprise... )
I've not been steeping grains all that long, but the few different brews I've cracked so far, while they've had a fairly strong roasty, chunky, this-was-once-malted-barley goodness, have not been overly sweet at all. I do plan on toning that down a bit, but from over 300g of grain (which is fairly common, unless I'm mistaken), I think 200g could be in the ballpark, but 100g I probably wouldn't be bothering with. It maybe the case with particular types of grains that for sure, 100g is a limit, I'm thinking cara roasts here, but they won't be sweeter anyway, at least I'd have thought.
Obviously, its difficult and risky to generalise like that. The ESBs and stouts (in particular) I've modelled my recent brews upon seem to take additions of that order in their stride, whereas other styles, well, I'll leave that to the experts.
Balance, of course, is what we're all after, at least most of us would be, remembering of course that a lot of this is often based on a subjective assessment (i.e. we don't measure much/all of this directly or objectively). What's good for the goose may not be so good for the gander!

 

[The Big Burper]

etc, etc,
There is a limit, obviously, but to say that 100g/23L batch is the max you can go is complete and utter madness imo.

Ummmmm,

Looks like I'm wrong. but........ I think that is sufficient if just jollying up a
can.

As you say, any more and it should be balanced by extra hops, then, that's extra steps.


cheers
Dave

 

[buttersd70]

Didn't mean to rant, and hope I didn't offend; that wasn't my intention. :unsure:

As it happens, as far as JZ's spec load goes, I have dificulty seeing the balance in it, because of the high amount of specs that do leave residual sweetness. I think a good example of balance with spec grains, on this board, is Tony. Well thought out recipes that balance hops, base malt sweetness, crystal sweetness, and roast dryness together, to give a harmonious effect, with a complexity on the palate, whilst still keeping to the KISS principle....