Sour beers

[mattric]

I'm interesting in brewing a sour beer but I really have no idea how to go about it. I know the basics of an IPA and such but sour beers really have me interested.

 

[DUANNE]

what style sour beer are you interested in? mostly the process is much the same as any other beer with the main exception being that using brett or bugs an extended fermentation time of up to three years is required depending on the style and desired outcome. if you want to use just brett then basically any recipe can be used keeping in mind wether the funk will mix well with hops or other components of the brew. if you want to use oter bugs such as lacto or pedio then a very low amount of ibus becomes necasary to let them do the job expected of them. a basic recipe for me for a straight or fruited lambic is 50/50 raw wheat and pils mashed around 68 for an hour or so then boiled for 90 mins with around 7 ibu of hallertau for 60 mins. chill put in a glass carboy to avoid oxidation and pitch a wyeast or whitelabs lambic blend. anytime you drink a our beer you can flame the lip of the bottle and pour in the dregs in youre caboy for added complexity. at 12 months either leave it as a straight lambic or put fruit in and leave for another six or 12 months till completely and thoroghly fermented out then bottle. you can also blend for gueze if you get several going at the same time.

 

[manticle]

If you're into lambics, google jim liddil lambic lesson.
If you're into funk/experimental check out mad fermentationist blogspot.
Also see babblebelt forum.
More info on what your preference is and you'll get tons more info here.

 

[QldKev]

Also check out the berliner weisse thread

QldKev

 

[Batz]

Talk to Winkle, best sour I ever had was one of Perry's just recently.

Batz

 

[Tony]

Im also interested in the process to make a good lambic. The Berliner Weisse was great and has sparked a want to make somethiing a bit more complex.

With my current long term dry spell, it will also be a bit of fun to watch it rot and have it getting close to bottle in 2014.

I have a couple EKG plugs pulled apart and "aging" for it.

Any tips from sour beer pro's out there much appreciated!

Cheers

 

[barls]

mash high to give the bugs more to eat and wait.
other than that, im learning as well.
its all in the ageing and blending i think but it depends on what your trying to make.

 

[Bizier]

I think it is a learning curve, and there is no simple thing to do to make a great sour, but there are some ways to make easy soured beers that will be good and will start you off on your own learning path. Getting multiple organisms to do exaclty what you want is a fair bit of a task.

I find a lot of sour beers I make initially disappoint me because it was not what I had in my head, though when I taste it, it tastes as it 'should' - i.e. it tastes like a combination of the ingredients and processes I used, just different to my expectation.

I would advise against using acetobacter (vinegar producer) found in roselare blend until you are a bit more familiar and I would use a glass fermenter if you do.

You can do a relatively quick and easy beer to get your toes wet, something like a low ibu cream ale kind of beer and pedio or lacto to tart it up.

If you are looking at souring bigger beers, then pedio is your go-to bacteria.

 

[Rowy]

Talk to Winkle, best sour I ever had was one of Perry's just recently.

Batz

I do believe I sampled that beer with you Batz and can say without fear of contradiction that it was a cracker. Mind you it was a little 'later' in the evening and our tastebuds had been well exercised :blink: That by the by Winkle is still your go to man in my humble opinion.

 

[Batz]

I do believe I sampled that beer with you Batz and can say without fear of contradiction that it was a cracker. Mind you it was a little 'later' in the evening and our tastebuds had been well exercised :blink: That by the by Winkle is still your go to man in my humble opinion.

That's the one Rowy, and that was the night. :beer:

 

[Rowy]

How are those sandbags going Batz?

 

[Tony]

now....... where is that winkle fella when you need him

 

[Toper]

I tried this on the weekend on tap at Beer Deluxe,Fed Square.Thought it was a cracker of a beer,couldn't get enough of it. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28036/84997

 

[Tony]

Would anyone have a recommendation for a Wyeast blend.

I am thinking of using either the Roeselare ale blend or the Belgian lambic blend.

both read the same as per the specs.

???

 

[manticle]

Only used the roeselare myself so can't advise on the other.
First batch was mainly brett funk (and well received in sour/funk case swap) and I have repitched on the cake a couple of times. With time and repitching the aceto becomes more dominant - enough for me that 3 pitches on the same cake was my limit.
I like sour balanced with funk and complexity so ageing with various flavours (oak, vanilla and whisky/whiskey are favourites) works for me best.
My roeselare was well old when I used it but that stuff just keeps going.

 

[Tony]

Spent last night reading the lambic lesson you mentioned above manticle......... awesome information resource.

I have double vac sealed all my hops and buried them in the deep freeze but i had a couple of pound packs of saaz and hallertau i got from the states a while back left out.

I have just run them through the grain mill to break them up, and will begin the long aging process. I may take some and speed up the process in the oven at low temp for a day for the first batch but in a couple of years i will have genuine aged hops

I think i might go with a raw wheat / Belgian pils grist for 1.052, and do a long winded turbid mash with a 3 to 4 hour boil.

I am even looking into oak casks

I know a bloke in the wine industry and i can get a french oak white wine cask but it will be 225 liter which is a bit big

Im after 20 to 50 liters

 

[manticle]

Obviously less romantic but oak chips in a hop sock or minimash bag work, aged in a silicon topped glass demijohn.

 

[Goldenchild]

I finally found a pdf copy of the out of print book "Classic beer styles -Lambic"

PM me for the link so i dont have to publish copyrighted material on the forum.

 

[Tony]

Thanks goldenchild......... PM sent.

Manticle, when you say silicon topped, what do you mean exactly?

I had my Berliner Weisse sit for 3 months with just a tin foil lid and it was ok.

 

[winkle]

Spent last night reading the lambic lesson you mentioned above manticle......... awesome information resource.

I have double vac sealed all my hops and buried them in the deep freeze but i had a couple of pound packs of saaz and hallertau i got from the states a while back left out.

I have just run them through the grain mill to break them up, and will begin the long aging process. I may take some and speed up the process in the oven at low temp for a day for the first batch but in a couple of years i will have genuine aged hops

I think i might go with a raw wheat / Belgian pils grist for 1.052, and do a long winded turbid mash with a 3 to 4 hour boil.

I am even looking into oak casks

I know a bloke in the wine industry and i can get a french oak white wine cask but it will be 225 liter which is a bit big

Im after 20 to 50 liters

But a hogshead is sooooo much cheaper Tony, a bulk brew day perhaps?