Sour beers

[Batz]

I'm going to make a Flanders red ale at the end of the month. I've got a recipe that I'm happy with, though I have a question about the yeast...

Do you ferment with a neutral yeast like US05, rack into carboy and pitch roselaire yeast or do you just pitch the roselaire first up. I can't imagine you would make a starter with that type of yeast, so two packets would probably be thereabouts for a 25L batch?

It should not need additional yeast, it has two strains of Brettanomyces.

 

[manticle]

You can do either.
1 pack should be fine.

 

[Grainer]

I pitched with wlp001 from memory and 2 days later rosalare.. now going back id do just rosalare cause i like it more sour.. depends upon your preferences really.

 

[Ciderman]

I'd prefer it to be more sour so just one packet into the carboy and leave it?

 

[michaeld16]

The roeselare does contain sachromyces you can pitch just roeselare blend from the start or as you mention do most of the fermentation with a nuetral ale yeast and let the bugs go to work. I went with the first option as from what I have read just pitching the roeselare can create a more sour beer. I can't report on my Flanders red yet still to young

 

[Batz]

The roeselare does contain sachromyces you can pitch just roeselare blend from the start or as you mention do most of the fermentation with a nuetral ale yeast and let the bugs go to work. I went with the first option as from what I have read just pitching the roeselare can create a more sour beer. I can't report on my Flanders red yet still to young

My Flanders is 9 months old now so still quite a wait. I believe pitching another brew on the roeselare yeast cake will result in a more sour brew. I blew that one and tipped it. :unsure:

 

[michaeld16]

My Flanders is 9 months old now so still quite a wait. I believe pitching another brew on the roeselare yeast cake will result in a more sour brew. I blew that one and tipped it. :unsure:

Yeah I'm looking forward to dumping the next batch on the yeast cake but at only 4 months old a fair way off yet. However I brewed a double batch one fermenter got roeselare the other wyeast oud bruin blend which has come along alot quicker.

 

[Ciderman]

Thanks for the helps guys. One other thing, just working out abv, will the FG get pretty low, like 1.002-1.005?

 

[manticle]

In my experience - yes. Exercise patience.

 

[Batz]

Yeah I'm looking forward to dumping the next batch on the yeast cake but at only 4 months old a fair way off yet. However I brewed a double batch one fermenter got roeselare the other wyeast oud bruin blend which has come along alot quicker.

I brewed mine as usual then racked to a glass carboy, I would not leave the brew on the yeast cake after fermentation is finished. Asking for off flavours there.

 

[Ciderman]

I brewed mine as usual then racked to a glass carboy, I would not leave the brew on the yeast cake after fermentation is finished. Asking for off flavours there.

Yep that makes sense. So pitch yeast as normal and I'd expect a normal style ale ferment. Let sit for a couple of weeks then rack off yeast cake into carboy. The bacteria will do its magic from there.

 

[Batz]

Yep that makes sense. So pitch yeast as normal and I'd expect a normal style ale ferment. Let sit for a couple of weeks then rack off yeast cake into carboy. The bacteria will do its magic from there.

That's it, that dead yeast can give you yeast bite. Perhaps not known to some but I have had it years ago and it's very unpleasant. Admittedly it is more apparent at warmer temperatures
I rack off as soon as the ferment is done, the bacteria is still well and good in your wort.
Keep up posted to as it turns out, I'll do the same. :beerbang:

 

[michaeld16]

I brewed mine as usual then racked to a glass carboy, I would not leave the brew on the yeast cake after fermentation is finished. Asking for off flavours there.

Ah yes had wondered about this and had read mixed feelings on just leaving in the primary, I thought I would just give it a go as I thought Brett would clean up on the autolysis. I will be brewing the same batch shortly and taking your method keen to see if my palette notices much diff

 

[Reman]

There's been a few Beersmith podcasts on sours and almost all of them recommend leaving the beer on the cake as Brett and Pedio will clean up the autolysis given enough time.

 

[Grainer]

I left mine in the primary for one week to do the majority of the ferment then racked of the large cake to my barrel..

 

[manticle]

Beers I've done with roeselare have been left on the cake the entire time. That's well over 12 months in each case. I have experienced autolysis with other brews and normally would avoid extended contact with yeast cake but in these instances it has not resulted in discernible off flavours (apart from the obvious, desirable brett/bacteria funk).

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

There's been a few Beersmith podcasts on sours and almost all of them recommend leaving the beer on the cake as Brett and Pedio will clean up the autolysis given enough time.

Lambic is left on the yeast cake, while Flanders Red and Oud Bruin are racked off after primary.

Leaving on the yeast cake favors Brett development. To favour lactic development for Flanders ales hold at 27 degrees in a glass secondary for a couple of months, like how the young beer for blending is made.

 

[thylacine]

Lambic is left on the yeast cake, while Flanders Red and Oud Bruin are racked off after primary.

Leaving on the yeast cake favors Brett development. To favour lactic development for Flanders ales hold at 27 degrees in a glass secondary for a couple of months, like how the young beer for blending is made.

Thread 'tangent':

I purchase commercial lambics and sours and really enjoy them. But not ready to commit to the time required to brew/age them myself.

A pleasant surprise today when my latest fruit beer went sour/tart on me, or at least my taste buds. Neither previous fresh apricot nor fresh mango brews changed from sweet fruit flavours to sour/tart as did a recent raspberry recipe. I anticipate it will become my poor cousin 'sour' recipe. e.g.. 1kg frozen raspberries added to 15L batch as yeast activity beginning to diminish.

Apologies to purists but just sharing my surprise, or perhaps evidence of my non-BJCP abilities.

;-)

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Thread 'tangent':

I purchase commercial lambics and sours and really enjoy them. But not ready to commit to the time required to brew/age them myself.

A pleasant surprise today when my latest fruit beer went sour/tart on me, or at least my taste buds. Neither previous fresh apricot nor fresh mango brews changed from sweet fruit flavours to sour/tart as did a recent raspberry recipe. I anticipate it will become my poor cousin 'sour' recipe. e.g.. 1kg frozen raspberries added to 15L batch as yeast activity beginning to diminish.

Apologies to purists but just sharing my surprise, or perhaps evidence of my non-BJCP abilities.

;-)

This thread went off on a tangent a couple of years ago :lol:

Yep raspberries have acid in them, and maybe a little lacto and friends made it in there on the fruit.

Its a bit of a wives tale sour beers take at least a year to make. Of course the truth is a little more complex.

First separate out Lambic from Flanders Reds/Bruins.

Lambic can be served young, or after 1+ years, or in a blend of all ages as Gueuze.

Flanders Reds/Bruins are generally 2/3 to 3/4 young beer (~2 month) blended with 1-2 year old aged beer.

Take for example Rodenbache. Rodenbach Original is made from 25% 2 year oak aged red ale and 75% young ale brewed in steel tanks. Rodenbach Grand Cru is made from 67% 2 year oak aged red ale and 33% young ale brewed in steel tanks.

The older beer has developed more character, but can be too much by itself.

So yes you can drink young sour beers, although your probably breaking some kind of home brewing "Lore"

Heres a tip if you want more sour next time you make a fruit beer. Go no higher than 10IBU and when you rack onto your fruit add some lacto (pref brevis) and try to keep at 27 degrees for up to 8 weeks (probably less). Taste your hydrometer samples regulary until your happy :kooi:
If you like put some away for aging and future blending with a young batch to provide complexity.

Of course either keg or refrigerate bottles after carbing and consume quickly to avoid bottle bombs.

 

[Ciderman]

I made a Mulberry Sasion in October which I kegged first week of November. It tastes like its starting to sour slightly. The taste is getting better so I'm not complaining. Is this normal for a fruit beer?