Solution To Whirlpool Problem

[Truman42]

Ive been using irish Moss 1/4 tablet 5 mins before end of boil, but will give brewbrite a try next time.

Your method beerfingers is exactly what i do but i wait for the convection currents to stop. It still manages to pull hotbreak in no matter how slight I crack open the tap. It just seems to spread out all over the bottom instead of sitting nicely in the middle in a cone.

Normally I haven't worried about it that much as it does settle in the bottom of the cube below the tap line especially after Ive cold conditioned. But my last brew there was so much in there the first 6 or so bottles I did were full of trub as it sucked in and cleared this layer sitting above the tap line.

Ive read so many conflicting reports on here and other websites that hotbreak in the fermenter does/doesnt produce off flavours I dont know what to beleive.
I should try a split batch as you say Nick and find out for myself.

Ive never noticed it myself but Ive only done 5 brews so am far from being an expert on the matter.

Cheers for the advice and comments guys..

 

[Nick JD]

Have a read of this thread

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=46800


From memory the beer with the trub ended up almost the same but a slightly sharper flavour. The theory was that that beer had the hop solids in there.

That's cold break though.

 

[Amber Fluid]

How fast are you opening your tap to drain the wort?
I found that if the tap drains the wort too fast then this disturbs the cone and since I have reduced the flow I get a nice cone everytime.

 

[Jace89]

I stir for around 8 mins then let it settle for another 5 or so, I also dont drain my kettle while whirlpooling.

 

[np1962]

From the picture in the OP I can see you have no pickup on your tap.
There is so much trub/break/hop debris there that it is above the level of your outlet, one side effect of BIAB is more trub.
Can you fit a pickup tube that bends around to the wall of your pot and can be raised above the level you are currently draining from. Then as the liquid drains swivel it lower to get the maximum wort without all the other material.
Also might want to try 1/2 a tab of Whirlfloc instead of a 1/4 (assuming by Irish Moss you mean Whirlfloc)
I don't think there is anything wrong in your procedure just may need to tweak the equipment so it works for you.
Nige

 

[Nick JD]

What's the temperature of the wort in your guy's cubes after all these minutes of draining?

 

[stux]

I use a siphon, which means I siphon from the top down, lowering the siphon head as I go. This I suppose gives more time for stuff to settle out.

Id suggest giving Nigel's tip a try.

Aternativy just drain everything into your cube and don't worry about it.

I only whirlpool so that I can get more out, I drain to about 1mm. All the trub gets sieved and settled to make a
Starter anyway.

The other thing I do is I decant off the break in the cube, results in a nice clean compact yeast cake

 

[jyo]

What's the temperature of the wort in your guy's cubes after all these minutes of draining?

At flameout, lid goes on, set timer for 15-20 minutes (depending on ambient temps) Come back, whirlpool. Set timer for 15-20 minutes. Into cube. I have checked the temp in the kettle after 40 minutes and it is above 85', so going into the cube I'm going to estimate it at 80+'. Yet my kettle is on a stand which would still be giving off some heat.
I've fermented cubes that have been 2 months old, no infections...

 

[Truman42]

From the picture in the OP I can see you have no pickup on your tap.
There is so much trub/break/hop debris there that it is above the level of your outlet, one side effect of BIAB is more trub.
Can you fit a pickup tube that bends around to the wall of your pot and can be raised above the level you are currently draining from. Then as the liquid drains swivel it lower to get the maximum wort without all the other material.
Also might want to try 1/2 a tab of Whirlfloc instead of a 1/4 (assuming by Irish Moss you mean Whirlfloc)
I don't think there is anything wrong in your procedure just may need to tweak the equipment so it works for you.
Nige

Whats probably made it even worse is that I asked G&G to mill it twice so I get better efficiency especially with this brew as it was a Scotch Ale with 5.5 kgs grain and an SG of 1.070. I managed to get 1.079 @ EOB, after sparging 3 times and caramelizing 3 litres of wort and adding back to the boil. So was happy with that.

Will give a pick up tube a try if I can rig something to fit.

@ NickJD Thanks for the link, interesting reading. Cold break hasn't been a problem as I dont chill. I just drain to cube and then pitch into my cube the next day. I could transfer but I figure each time I transfer Im losing more and more volume. To be honest I haven't noticed any taste problems but Im no expert. I just hate the look of trub floating around in my beer. I poured one for a family member at xmas time and it looked crap because it had all these floaties in it.

 

[loikar]

BF, after 15 minutes I still have shit rising all over the place in my kettle from the convections, be it 23 or 46 litre batch. I can't see how whirlpooling straight away after the boil while there are still convections throwing particles everywhere would work? I don't see the need to rush this part of the process. Not being a smartarse.
2c

Might be my fault for not explaining enough mate...

So I do 20L batches in a 50L keggle
This is a pic of my whirlpool yesterday:

So this is off the NASA and onto my "brewstand", whirlpooled and this is about 2-3min later.
As you can see, the break has definitely separated and there is good clean wort there.
after 10min there is still a little circulation going on and very little trub floating around.

So at this point, I crack the tap, not fully open it, but crack it about 1/4 way open.
I do get small amounts of trub in the cube, but a negligible amount and it runs fairly clean.

So my theory is: if the Whirlpool has finished, your thermals will be floating the shit around. But with a slight whirlpool still going, there's enough movement to keep the trub and pull the thermals in the middle and allow you to crack the tap.
Whirlpool during the boil and you'll kinda get where i'm coming from as far as pulling the heat and shit to the middle.

But then again, if I have my first pint at mash in, the care factor comes into play as well by the time i'm filling the cube. :icon_drunk:

I was sure I took a photo of my trub in the bottom of the kettle, but I musn't have as I cant find it.
I'll try and take a pic of my cube when I get home to show you.

Anyway. the key points I'm making are.

1. Dont crack the tap while it's all milky, wait until it separates.
2. Crack the tap 1/4 way while the whirlpool is still active.
3. Watch the cone and your pickup and adjust tap accordingly (you can see how much you're sucking in).
4. Getting trub in your fermenter\cube isn't such a big deal (i've never heard of anyone's beer being ruined by having trub in the fermenter, in fact I know some great brewers that barely whirlpool and produce great beers.

Disclaimer:
I'm not saying it's something you shouldn't try to keep out of your beer, but I am saying there's no need to shit your pants and whip yourself with a willow branch if you do get a heap in there.

Cheers,

BF

 

[Truman42]

If ya get some voile and line a colander with it, and pour the break + wort into it and wait for an hour the running collected into the bowl underneath it are clear, with a very fine break material at the bottom that did get through the voile. This settles out and you can pour off about 90% of the collected wort.

I pour it into a pot and bring it to the boil, cover it in gladwrap and when it's cooled, add it to the fermenter. Almost zero losses.

Nick in that other post you mention doing this. Is there any reason why you cant boil it and then tip it into your cube with the rest of the wort whilst its still no chilling on my garage floor, and pitching the next day as I normally do?

 

[troopa]

I also have an exposed element and have the same issues as you
just whirpool the best you can then drain to a fermenter
let it sit for 15-20 mins then drain into a secondary .. usually by the time youve cleaned most of the other gear youll be ready to transfer and clean your first fermenter
worked well for me (Only did it the for the first time yesterday though)

 

[seamad]

Truman, with the wort recovered thfough the colander method boil and cool for a starter or boil and add late addition hops, then cool in sink or argonize it by cooling cube down and adding direct.

 

[Nick JD]

Truman, with the wort recovered thfough the colander method boil and cool for a starter or boil and add late addition hops, then cool in sink or argonize it by cooling cube down and adding direct.

+1

Strain it off using a swiss voile lined kitchen strainer. Wait for it to settle to cryatal clear and pour it off into a container leaving some headspace ... and put it in the freezer if you are waiting.

Before you pitch, boil it for 5-10 minutes, turn the heat off, chuck in 20g of hops and put it in the sink with ice.

Fill your fermenter and strain it in to remove the hops.

Or use it to make a starter and pitch the whole thing - as it's the same beer. Just don't make your starter too warm.

 

[jyo]

Disclaimer:
I'm not saying it's something you shouldn't try to keep out of your beer, but I am saying there's no need to shit your pants and whip yourself with a willow branch if you do get a heap in there.

Cheers,

BF

Cheers for that, mate. As you said if you're not noticing any negatives with a bit of extra trub in the cube/fermenter, then who cares? When I first started AG I would sometimes leave the wort in the kettle over night to cool (in winter) so sitting on trub for 12 hours plus siphoning a shit load of trub into the fermenter. Did pretty well in a comp with a beer brewed like this. Not best practise, I'm sure, but made some cracker beers.
Sorry if I've strayed off topic here.

 

[Truman42]

+1

Strain it off using a swiss voile lined kitchen strainer. Wait for it to settle to cryatal clear and pour it off into a container leaving some headspace ... and put it in the freezer if you are waiting.

Before you pitch, boil it for 5-10 minutes, turn the heat off, chuck in 20g of hops and put it in the sink with ice.

Fill your fermenter and strain it in to remove the hops.

Or use it to make a starter and pitch the whole thing - as it's the same beer. Just don't make your starter too warm.

Will give this a crack next time. Every litre saved is another 3 stubbies. :icon_cheers:

 

[loikar]

Just an FYI...

This was my all cube hopped beer.
I sucked most of the trub into it and fermented on top of it.
the beer is probably my best no-chill to date.

Notice the Trub?

 

[Truman42]

Just an FYI...

This was my all cube hopped beer.
I sucked most of the trub into it and fermented on top of it.
the beer is probably my best no-chill to date.

Notice the Trub?

Mate thats exactly how mine looks and I do the same thing, just pitch into the cube and ferment, then CC and bottle, except I have a tap on my cube and bottle direct from that.
Do you keep the bottles that end up with the trub in them from the first ones you bottle? Or do you siphon of the top and rack into a secondary?
Maybe thats another method I should consider.

 

[stux]

Mate thats exactly how mine looks and I do the same thing, just pitch into the cube and ferment, then CC and bottle, except I have a tap on my cube and bottle direct from that.
Do you keep the bottles that end up with the trub in them from the first ones you bottle? Or do you siphon of the top and rack into a secondary?
Maybe thats another method I should consider.

Are you bulk priming?

I would consider racking into a bulk priming vessel and bottling from that. Won't need to do individual bottle addtions, and you'll leave behind most of the gunk.

Was trying to work out how you were getting kettle trub into your bottles

 

[loikar]

Mate thats exactly how mine looks and I do the same thing, just pitch into the cube and ferment, then CC and bottle, except I have a tap on my cube and bottle direct from that.
Do you keep the bottles that end up with the trub in them from the first ones you bottle? Or do you siphon of the top and rack into a secondary?
Maybe thats another method I should consider.

I don't usually have that much trub in my beer, but like I said, having it there doesn't bother me.

Nope, usually about 24hrs before I keg I roll the cube back and swap the plug for a tap.
let anything that stirred settle for that 24hrs.

When Kegging I usually dump the first 500ml to 1L to clear out any trub that's collected near and around the tap fitting (that's why I brew 20L batches and not 18L) then drop the hose into the keg with a SS mesh on the end of the hose (held with non-food grade rubber bands) to catch anything that'll clog my pickup tube.

when bottling I just rack the lot on my sugar solution to bulk prime and bottle.

Cheers,

BF