Soldering Instead Of Welding?

[yardy]

We spent hours mucking around with it different speeds and amps and couldnt get a decent weld. Basically welding on 1 or 4 was the same, no mound and very flat welds on every setting. I am not that savvy with the technical side of welding but it was shit, kept blowing holes and couldn't get a fluid weld happening no matter what we tried. I used my mates welder and could get a decent looking weld with my level of experience first go.

It's a 180Amp Gas/Gasless but not using the gas, using flux core wire and the polarity has been reversed.


Hope that makes sence, as I said, not really savvy with it just yet.

Cheers,


Sully

Sully,

just sounds like it's running very hot on light material, you're giving yourself an uppercut using that bloody gasless wire as well.

what thickness steel were you welding on ? hope it's not galv

pm me if you like, might be able to help you out with a couple of tips

cheers
Yard

sorry for the :icon_offtopic: btw..

 

[chappo1970]

just sounds like it's running very hot on light material, you're giving yourself an uppercut using that bloody gasless wire as well.

Got to agree with yardy. Flux core = not good for ya health = splatters = ugly welds = lots of grinding = not so good final product IMHO.
CO2 and Argon gas cyclinders, the throw away variety, from Trades Tools etc aren't overly expensive but you will end up with a better job.

A+ to yardy for helping.

 

[litre_o_cola]

We spent hours mucking around with it different speeds and amps and couldnt get a decent weld. Basically welding on 1 or 4 was the same, no mound and very flat welds on every setting. I am not that savvy with the technical side of welding but it was shit, kept blowing holes and couldn't get a fluid weld happening no matter what we tried. I used my mates welder and could get a decent looking weld with my level of experience first go.

It's a 180Amp Gas/Gasless but not using the gas, using flux core wire and the polarity has been reversed.


Hope that makes sence, as I said, not really savvy with it just yet.

Cheers,


Sully

When setting my gasless up I found that the wire feed rollers weren't at the correct tension and same with the spool tensioner, once I set that up fine changing wire speed and power to the ******* actually made a difference after getting the shits with it for a couple of hours.

 

[seravitae]

Anyone done brass to stainless welding? I attempted to install a brass threaded rod thru the side of my mash tun in order to fit a drain tap last week, and even with a silicone gasket when it is fully filled there is a very slow leak (drip in 10 seconds?). I think we didnt flatten the side enough when drilling, so the hole is probably very slightly oval shaped. I am thinking of taking it to some welders to see if they can permanently seal it in with TIG welding.

Any ideas if i should do this or is there some other way?

 

[razz]

Did you check it with hot water in the tun Sera? My boiler leaked a little but once I filled it with very hot water it was okay.

 

[Gavo]

Anyone done brass to stainless welding?

You can only weld similar metals like stainless to mild steel ( not that you would want to do that as it defeats the purpose of using SS inthe first place). Brass and Stainless metals are too dissimilar and can't be welded successfully. braizing or silver soldering would be the better solution, or use a weldless fitting solution.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[seravitae]

Hot water may temporarily fix it due to thermal expansion of the materials but im not sure i'd be satisfied with that being a permanent solution. With the amount of force I need to apply to get a decent seal, causes the silicone gasket to 'run away' from the gap. I'm going to try adding a washer to extend the surface area around the silicone gasket, in hopes that it then can't run away, but other then that, i'm off to find a tig welding dude/dudette and get a stainless threaded rod. If i can get the stainless threaded rod with the same thread as the ball valve and stuff I bought, then i can get that welded in, and then just use the brass fittings/nuts I already bought.

 

[rich_lamb]

Back on to TB's original assertion - I don't think anybody's given any good reasoning for NOT using (food grade) solder. I guess that means it's strong and reliable enough to use generally?

I agree with the notion that it's easy for us hackers who don't have the exxy welding gear and just wanna do one joint without mucking around too much.

But you do hear these myths that come from Trades (no offence guys) from time to time about solder joints being unreliable and such. I soldered a lot of the plumbing in my house before I aquired an oxy kit - in awkward locations sqeezed up under the house, and it's been perfectly reliable for nearly two decades.

Having said all that, there's nothing more gentle on your SS than a weldless fitting, and ANYBODY can do that.

While I'm here - hopefully not off topic - does anybody know how to braze brass fitting without burning the crap out of them?

 

[chappo1970]

You can only weld similar metals like stainless to mild steel ( not that you would want to do that as it defeats the purpose of using SS inthe first place). Brass and Stainless metals are too dissimilar and can't be welded successfully. braizing or silver soldering would be the better solution, or use a weldless fitting solution.

Cheers
Gavo.

Gavo has it all and is completely right IMO silver solder will do the job you want.

...I don't think anybody's given any good reasoning for NOT using (food grade) solder. I guess that means it's strong and reliable enough to use generally?

Nope it is perfectly fine to use "SILVER SOLDER" just like what the plumber's use. I have an issue with tinned solder and or electrical type solder which contains tin and lead (Pb). It's just plain stupid to use and if you do use it you are a deadset drop kick IMHO.

I agree with the notion that it's easy for us hackers who don't have the exxy welding gear and just wanna do one joint without mucking around too much.

You can, it is easy as and most importantly affordable. A map gas setup is under $100 and will do the job superbly.

But you do hear these myths that come from Trades (no offence guys) from time to time about solder joints being unreliable and such. I soldered a lot of the plumbing in my house before I aquired an oxy kit - in awkward locations sqeezed up under the house, and it's been perfectly reliable for nearly two decades.

please tell me that the plumbing in your house wasn't soldered using tinned/lead solder?

While I'm here - hopefully not off topic - does anybody know how to braze brass fitting without burning the crap out of them?

Slowly slowy catch a monkey. Gently heat the work piece up occasionally dabbing the filler rod on the work piece without the flame. Once the filler rod begins to melt you have reached the right temp to start brazing which means basically the same technique. Heat dab, heat dab, heat dab can be a little tricky but you will get it especially if you have brazed copper tubing before.

 

[mika]

Brazing in the past, have found it easier to 'tin' (build the weld material up on) each piece to be joined and then sit the two together and just heat it up enough for the weld material to join and smooth out. Makes it a lot easier for fittings close to the bottom of kettles where access to the underside of the fitting on the inside is not so easy.

 

[stew.w]

Soft solder (tin) which is used in plumbing doesn't have lead in it anymore, i find it reasonably easy to use but you just cant get it too hot or it will burn the tin out of it and then you will have a lot of trouble getting a seal. a few houses i have worked on have had every joint in the house soft soldered.
Most plumbers use silver solder now because it is stronger and more reliable, but i hear in england they still soft solder all water pipework in houses.
So as long as you use the right solder it should be fine, although i would still silver solder it.

Stew

 

[chappo1970]

And if someone really seeks bragging rights, could I suggest that welding two 50L kegs together to form a decent-sized boiler would be right up there on my list of impressive things to do!

Yep I agree you want to keep the parts you need to service eg Taps away from being hard wired in. However welding/soldering/brazing/fabricating parts is part and parcel of setting up a brewery. Fixing a threaded manifold so you can remove the tap and leave the pick up tube in place comes to mind... or then there's this [topic="27136"]type[/topic] of set up and or [topic="27353"]this
[/topic] and then there [topic="16391"]this[/topic] level (a personal favourite)

Don't get me wrong I get your point but there are some out here in the wilderness that love to tinker and fabricate and make stuff.

 

[schooey]

And if someone really seeks bragging rights, could I suggest that welding two 50L kegs together to form a decent-sized boiler would be right up there on my list of impressive things to do!

Pfffft... Heaps of people here have done that. The ol' Boozeroony is one from memory...

Impresseive is cutting a coke can in half around the centre and tigging it back together..... without any distortion

 

[chappo1970]

Impresseive is cutting a coke can in half around the centre and tigging it back together..... without any distortion

Now I would pay money to see that! B)

 

[katzke]

please tell me that the plumbing in your house wasn't soldered using tinned/lead solder?

Well yes I am willing to wager they are. Except the one I had to fix after some contractor needing to borrow my bib left the hose attached and it froze. Not sure when plumbers stopped using lead solder but I am sure it was after my house was built. By the way it was built just after they stopped using lead in paint (1970 something).

Care to wager if any of your city water pipes are made with asbestos pipe? They used it over here so I bet they used it over there also. Sometime between the old wood ones and the new plastic ones. I met a guy that removed asbestos for a living. Asked him what he was going to do whaen they ran out of asbestos to remove. He just smiled and said start on fiberglass.

 

[chappo1970]

Well yes I am willing to wager they are. Except the one I had to fix after some contractor needing to borrow my bib left the hose attached and it froze. Not sure when plumbers stopped using lead solder but I am sure it was after my house was built. By the way it was built just after they stopped using lead in paint (1970 something).

Care to wager if any of your city water pipes are made with asbestos pipe? They used it over here so I bet they used it over there also. Sometime between the old wood ones and the new plastic ones. I met a guy that removed asbestos for a living. Asked him what he was going to do whaen they ran out of asbestos to remove. He just smiled and said start on fiberglass.

I know your right katzke. I won't wager ya on that one mate. Over 23 years in commerical construction has opened my eye to fair amount of WTF is going on here stuff. If you really want to scare yourself you should check out your local hospitals, as in back of house and basements. Let's just say there's reasons why some don't come home from hospital.

There is a particular hospital that still stores radioactive materials from the nuclear tests conducted in 1950's at Maralinga (doesn't look right but you know the name) in a bunker that is surrounded by 2m thick concrete walls, floors and ceilings. It started leaking 5 years ago and it still isn't fixed!

Anyway I guess my point was to avoid using leaded solder. We are probably exposed enough to it without putting it your loving hand crafted beer IMO!

 

[katzke]

Anyway I guess my point was to avoid using leaded solder. We are probably exposed enough to it without putting it your loving hand crafted beer IMO!

Yep no need to use any solder on pipes that you are not 100% sure is safe. I still have a lifetime supply of lead solder from what I have picked up over the years and use it for suitable things where the lead will not harm anything. It is still available in the store if I remember correctly.

As to the subject of the thread. I think braising is suitable for some applications around the brewery. I have a nice copper brew spoon that I made up and used lead free plumbers solder to put it together. Still have a finishing touch to put on it but have not decided yet how to finish. I think any fitting for a valve on a brew kettle should be welded or weldless. The thought of knocking off a fitting holding back all that boiling wort that was just braised on is not comforting.

 

[Tony]

I have a soldered 90 deg fitting (silver soldered) and i have discovered its leaking on the weekend.

Going to chop it off and try and bend the tube around somehow to have it weldless.

Things like this i would recomend avoiding weld or solder joints.

cheers

 

[rich_lamb]

please tell me that the plumbing in your house wasn't soldered using tinned/lead solder?

No, I'm not quite that stupid. It was most certainly lead free. Can't vouch for the silver content though.
Much better than the old corroded steel pipes with what looked like hession as gasketing - talk about primitive.

Slowly slowy catch a monkey. Gently heat the work piece up occasionally dabbing the filler rod on the work piece without the flame. Once the filler rod begins to melt you have reached the right temp to start brazing which means basically the same technique. Heat dab, heat dab, heat dab can be a little tricky but you will get it especially if you have brazed copper tubing before.

Cheers, thanks for the tip