Sodastream for oxidation protection

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Tangentile

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I'm planning to transfer a APA out of the primary into the secondary for dry hopping off the yeast, but I'm really wary of oxidisation having lost a few batches that way.

Do you reckon I could use my Sodastream and some tubing to introduce CO2 into the bottom of the secondary before transfer to minimise this? If so, how much would I need?

Cheers!
 
Hey mate, can I ask why you are transferring for dryhop?

Is there any particular reason you want to get off the yeast?
 
I don't normally make hoppy beers, and this one was really hoppy when I put it in the fermenter, but the hop aroma and taste has almost disappeared after 5 days. I figure breweries drop the yeast and then dry hop so the yeast doesn't affect hop flavour, and moving to a secondary was my way of doing that..

Using the new Lalleman Verdant yeast which has some lovely flavours of it's own, but would really love a strong hop flavour in this beer as well.

I'm also shit scared of oxidising the beer by opening the lid to dry hop and I know I can do a transfer to secondary gently and safely.
 
Hey mate, so a few things about dry hopping and oxidation, also yeast.

Not being offensive, but it sounds like you are a relatively new brewer, if I have gotten this wrong please don't take this like I am telling you how to suck eggs!

Disclaimer: This is MY opinion. Everyone does things differently. Take what you think works, leave what you think doesn't. It's about what works for you, as you're brewing beer that YOU like to drink.

Yeast: There is no advantage to moving your fermentation for beer into a secondary. Controversial to some, but the act of racking from primary to a secondary fermenter is just an increased risk for infection, oxidation and loss of beer. Yeast will generally not undergo autolysis (mass die off, kind of like drinking the coolaid) for many months. The fear of moving your fermentation off the yeast cake to avoid 'off flavours' has long been negated.

Yeast will also not do anything to the hops unless you are hopping during peak fermentation. This process is known as 'bio transformation' and the jury is still out on whether it positively effects ALL hops, but from what I have found I much prefer a single dry hop addition during high krausen (peak fermentation) and that's it. If you have almost reached FG, your chance of bio transformation on the hops is minimal.

Oxidation: Oxidising your beer is a big risk when racking to any vessel. The only way to do it safely is through a no-oxygen transfer, usually from a sealed pressure fermenter into a keg that has been purged of all oxygen. To simply rack from one to another will introduce oxygen. Essentially it's only a risk once fermentation is really underway, as the presence of alcohol will accelerate the oxidation process. That's why you oxygenate prior to pitching yeast and then leave it be. Some fermentations benefit from introducing oxygen during fermentation, Mead being one of them but not beer.

Dry hopping: I already covered bio transformation under yeast, so if you're looking to dry hop then I would do it when you have about 3 days left before cold crash and packaging. Be aware, that big dry hop additions will increase the risk of 'gushers' if you are bottling, as the suspended hop matter can provide nucleation points for gushing, as well as other factors (i'm not an expert on why hops cause gushing)

The general consensus for dry hopping has been discussed ad nauseum on multiple forums, but generally you can go 'naked' and just throw em in. That's what I do. The second option is to use a hop sock (or nylon stocking) that's at least 2x the size of the hops you add, so when they get wet they can swell up. Weight it down with some marbles or other sanitary weight. Sanitise the hop sock and weights, pop it in and then you can remove it before packaging. This is probably what I would do if i'm bottling.

You will introduce VERY LITTLE oxygen by opening the fermenter lid. It's not like oxygen will just go gushing into the fermenter like the scene from a movie when a plane door opens. You just open it, sprinkle them im (or plop the sock in) and close the lid.

I'm sure people with more knowledge than me can correct anything wrong i've stated or add more.
 
Do you reckon I could use my Sodastream and some tubing to introduce CO2 into the bottom of the secondary before transfer to minimise this? If so, how much would I need?

I've done a similar thing to purge the headspace of a fermenter with CO2 after taking a lid off. When my mini-reg/soda stream bottle is just cracked open in line with the "LOW" mark on the dial, it flows roughly 3 L/min. Once you know that you can run your CO2 for a time that corresponds to the volume of air you want to displace.

To measure my flow rate, I filled a bucket of water, and inverted a glass 1L jug underneath. With the CO2 outlet under the jug, I timed how long it took CO2 to displace 1L of water. Maybe not the most accurate method but will get you in the ballpark.
 
Hey mate, so a few things about dry hopping and oxidation, also yeast.

Not being offensive, but it sounds like you are a relatively new brewer, if I have gotten this wrong please don't take this like I am telling you how to suck eggs!

Disclaimer: This is MY opinion. Everyone does things differently. Take what you think works, leave what you think doesn't. It's about what works for you, as you're brewing beer that YOU like to drink.

Yeast: There is no advantage to moving your fermentation for beer into a secondary. Controversial to some, but the act of racking from primary to a secondary fermenter is just an increased risk for infection, oxidation and loss of beer. Yeast will generally not undergo autolysis (mass die off, kind of like drinking the coolaid) for many months. The fear of moving your fermentation off the yeast cake to avoid 'off flavours' has long been negated.

Yeast will also not do anything to the hops unless you are hopping during peak fermentation. This process is known as 'bio transformation' and the jury is still out on whether it positively effects ALL hops, but from what I have found I much prefer a single dry hop addition during high krausen (peak fermentation) and that's it. If you have almost reached FG, your chance of bio transformation on the hops is minimal.

Oxidation: Oxidising your beer is a big risk when racking to any vessel. The only way to do it safely is through a no-oxygen transfer, usually from a sealed pressure fermenter into a keg that has been purged of all oxygen. To simply rack from one to another will introduce oxygen. Essentially it's only a risk once fermentation is really underway, as the presence of alcohol will accelerate the oxidation process. That's why you oxygenate prior to pitching yeast and then leave it be. Some fermentations benefit from introducing oxygen during fermentation, Mead being one of them but not beer.

Dry hopping: I already covered bio transformation under yeast, so if you're looking to dry hop then I would do it when you have about 3 days left before cold crash and packaging. Be aware, that big dry hop additions will increase the risk of 'gushers' if you are bottling, as the suspended hop matter can provide nucleation points for gushing, as well as other factors (i'm not an expert on why hops cause gushing)

The general consensus for dry hopping has been discussed ad nauseum on multiple forums, but generally you can go 'naked' and just throw em in. That's what I do. The second option is to use a hop sock (or nylon stocking) that's at least 2x the size of the hops you add, so when they get wet they can swell up. Weight it down with some marbles or other sanitary weight. Sanitise the hop sock and weights, pop it in and then you can remove it before packaging. This is probably what I would do if i'm bottling.

You will introduce VERY LITTLE oxygen by opening the fermenter lid. It's not like oxygen will just go gushing into the fermenter like the scene from a movie when a plane door opens. You just open it, sprinkle them im (or plop the sock in) and close the lid.

I'm sure people with more knowledge than me can correct anything wrong i've stated or add more.
Hey Kadmium,

Thanks so much for going to so much trouble and providing so much info.

No offence taken all, I am fairly new to brewing this time around after doing everything wrong the last couple of times I've tried over the years.

Oxidation has been my worst enemy since restarting, but I think I'm getting my process right. Totally see that moving to a secondary is a big risk, which was why I was hoping to reduce that with the CO2 from the Sodastream.

I guess I just really liked the hoppy taste of the original wort and wanted to recapture it. I might try in the primary, which I've done before without much hoppy flavour resulting. It seems you need to add a buttload of hops to get it to come through.

My only other issue is the lid of my fermenter. It's really tight and is a pain to loosen, even when it's empty.

TBH it's tasting pretty good without the dry hop. In the end I'd rather have a good tasting beer than one tasting like cardboard.

Thanks again.
 
I've done a similar thing to purge the headspace of a fermenter with CO2 after taking a lid off. When my mini-reg/soda stream bottle is just cracked open in line with the "LOW" mark on the dial, it flows roughly 3 L/min. Once you know that you can run your CO2 for a time that corresponds to the volume of air you want to displace.

To measure my flow rate, I filled a bucket of water, and inverted a glass 1L jug underneath. With the CO2 outlet under the jug, I timed how long it took CO2 to displace 1L of water. Maybe not the most accurate method but will get you in the ballpark.
Good tip. Thanks!
 

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