Smart Wiring For House/brewhouse

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Ok I know this is not directly related to brewing BUT I am wiring my house so i can have Phone /Date points and TV in the new rooms.I also want to run data and phone to my brew shed.I have had a guy come out and tell me Its going to cost $2k to do and I need a 240 V patch panel.I remember Bonj or some one talking about this before but cant find a post.Any Ideas from the tech folk on the forum.$2K sounds a lot to do the job as there are only bare walls now with no covering.
GB

 

[pbrosnan]

Ok I know this is not directly related to brewing BUT I am wiring my house so i can have Phone /Date points and TV in the new rooms.I also want to run data and phone to my brew shed.I have had a guy come out and tell me Its going to cost $2k to do and I need a 240 V patch panel.I remember Bonj or some one talking about this before but cant find a post.Any Ideas from the tech folk on the forum.$2K sounds a lot to do the job as there are only bare walls now with no covering.
GB

I don't know Nev, "date" points can be expensive. Seriously though, you should probably get another quote for the data, it's just blue cable and rs232 points. And you can use wireless for most things now anyway. I mean a cordless phone and a wireless card takes care of the shed. Don't know what the 240V patch panel is for (or even what it is) sounds expensive though.

 

[Doogiechap]

Hey Nev,
Quotes can be a very subjective thing. $80 /Hr labor adds up pretty quickly. Definately get another person to give you a quote. The old thread discussing this topic is here .
Cheers
Doug

 

[Franko]

GB
2K my arse.

I had our house built 4 years ago and I wired every room/garage/behind the fridge with data and coms
I do this cabling for a living

For phones run a 4pr or 6pr cable to an existing point this can be wired up from there.I recommend a 6pr cable because if you want to run a phone and or separate fax/business line you still will have spare pairs available for the future if you need them.
As for your data
All you need is cat 5 cabling to each room run to 1 central point eg a patch panel and then a hub which connects to your modem/router.
I've never seen a 240v patch panel before - but PM me with your address and I'll send you a 16 way patch panel.

Your data may also be done via wireless but cable is better IMHO

Let me know if I can help out in any other way

Franko

 

[ausdb]

You could save some money if you can find somebody who will let you do some of the monkey work running the cables but technically anything hooked up to phone lines has to be done by an ACMA registered cabler, or under their direct supervision as things like segregation from mains power needs to be addressed and maintained many other little do's and dont's. See http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1897
For the run out to the shed you will save $$ if you dig the trench and drop the conduit in it for the guy.

The clipsal "starserve" patch/distribution panels for distributing TV and stuff do add a bit to the cost as well, maybe that is what he was talking about

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

You could save some money if you can find somebody who will let you do some of the monkey work running the cables but technically anything hooked up to phone lines has to be done by an ACMA registered cabler, or under their direct supervision as things like segregation from mains power needs to be addressed and maintained many other little do's and dont's. See http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1897
For the run out to the shed you will save $$ if you dig the trench and drop the conduit in it for the guy.

The clipsal "starserve" patch/distribution panels do add a bit to the cost as well

That price was including the patch panel but with me doing the trench work.
GB

 

[BenH]

If I was you I'd go wireless. Sure, it's a bit slower (not that you'd notice probably) - and it has the advantage of working wherever you want e.g. if you decide that your brew bench is better on the other side of the shed, you can move things around without worrying about whether you've got cables in the right spot or not. If you have a laptop, even better... you can use it in any room of the house (or yard).

Plus, it'll be a hellava lot cheaper than 2K.

 

[ausdb]

That price was including the patch panel but with me doing the trench work.
GB

Ouch

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Hey Nev,
Quotes can be a very subjective thing. $80 /Hr labor adds up pretty quickly. Definately get another person to give you a quote. The old thread discussing this topic is here .
Cheers
Doug

Cheers Dougie ,Thats some non understandable thread :huh: Techno illiterate me.
GB

 

[pbrosnan]

You can certainly do the data yourself as it won't go near the phone lines. Wired is probably a bit more reliable and definitely faster however speed is not an issue in most cases. I run 3 wireless network media players and can stream HD with no hiccups. Speeds only an issue when you need to copy large files, and I mean 10s of gigabytes+. With wireless you can get away with just having the access point, no patch panels.

 

[Franko]

Its true wireless is a great option if you can live without running some wires and so too is a cordless telephone.
but when you add up the price of these components (depending on what you have) cable is the better choice IMHO

I run a wireless network here at my house as well as cabling to every room.

my 2c worth

Franko

 

[LethalCorpse]

You can do a cabling course for about $250 that should qualify you to not only wire your own, but charge other people to do it for them. Teach a man to fish and all that.

 

[white.grant]

I'm another wireless fan - these days wireless is fast and its only going to get faster - it also gives you certain freedoms in where you set the 'puter up in the brewhouse. TV connections in multiple rooms can get expensive though.

I'd get a few more quotes.

cheers

Grant

 

[newguy]

$2,000. Wow.

Stupid question for everyone. Is there a law in Australia that stipulates that only electricians can touch house wiring? In Canada the homeowner is allowed to do it, subject to a final inspection before it's turned on, of course. A few years ago, in my first house, I enclosed our carport and turned it into a garage. I also put a subpanel in the garage and wired the whole thing myself. The total cost for the cable, 60A breaker in the main panel to feed the garage subpanel, the subpanel itself, and all the breakers in it and the plugs, lights, conduit and wiring it fed cost me in the neighbourhood of ~$400-500. I saved some by getting the heavy cable that fed the subpanel for free from my neighbour, who was a lineman. Even I had to pay for that, I don't think it would have added more than about $100-150 to the cost. For the data portion, Cat5e or even Cat6 cable is quite cheap but I think that a wireless link would be less hassle and almost every bit as reliable.

 

[roger mellie]

$2,000. Wow.

Stupid question for everyone. Is there a law in Australia that stipulates that only electricians can touch house wiring? In Canada the homeowner is allowed to do it, subject to a final inspection before it's turned on, of course. A few years ago, in my first house, I enclosed our carport and turned it into a garage. I also put a subpanel in the garage and wired the whole thing myself. The total cost for the cable, 60A breaker in the main panel to feed the garage subpanel, the subpanel itself, and all the breakers in it and the plugs, lights, conduit and wiring it fed cost me in the neighbourhood of ~$400-500. I saved some by getting the heavy cable that fed the subpanel for free from my neighbour, who was a lineman. Even I had to pay for that, I don't think it would have added more than about $100-150 to the cost. For the data portion, Cat5e or even Cat6 cable is quite cheap but I think that a wireless link would be less hassle and almost every bit as reliable.

Not a stupid question - though the reason for the answer is stupid IMO.

Here in Straya - the unions call the shots when it comes to protecting the trade industries. Specifically Electrical and Plumbing.

It used to be like this is NZ many years ago - they changed the rules so you could wire and plumb yourself but you needed to obtain an inspection certificate before 'turning on'. The hue and cry from the tradespeople was that more people would electrocute themselves (the safety card)- I don't think this ever happened.

Anyway my 2C on GB's issues - I would guess that the data dude is saying you need a powered patch panel - 2K seems high though. Unless you are going to run deep blue - the new wireless protocols 802.11n will run all your computers admirably - for about $300 of wireless router. Thats exactly what I do here - I have 6 computers running through a server so the traffic is pretty high sometimes - sure its slower than a 100 MBS wired network - but never an issue. Location of the Router is about the only issue - but if you have hollow walls (non Brick) wireless signals will travel trough about 6 rooms (from experiment)

RM

 

[PostModern]

I'm another wireless fan - these days wireless is fast and its only going to get faster - it also gives you certain freedoms in where you set the 'puter up in the brewhouse. TV connections in multiple rooms can get expensive though.

I'd get a few more quotes.

cheers

Grant

You can get gigabit wireless networking? Man! 10GB is on the way over Cat 6 cables (and that's what I'd use if I was going to keep a house for a while). I don't know much about wireless, but I think it's a few years away from that kind of speed.

However, I agree with the others. If you're doing the trenching GB, there's a day's work in it plus materials. The more points you want hooked up, the more copper, the more $$.

 

[Screwtop]

If you can do the trenching then I'm sure you could cope with a measure up for the amount of cable you will need for power and light. The sparky might be talking about a sub-board (switchboard) for the shed. Doubt if you would need more than one power circuit and one light circuit run from the sub-board, measure up the runs you will need once the framing is done, then get a price on rolls of power (2.5mm twin & earth) cable and rolls of light (1.5mm twin & earth) cable. They come in 100M rolls, check the price at your nearest electrical wholesaler. Find a sparky who will allow you to do the cable jerking, with him doing the fit off and switchboard work. First get him to supply and fit the sub board. Next mount the cavity plates around the place for all of the power points and light switches. Use a 20mm spade bit and drill through the top plates and noggins in the wall frames allowing for cable access from the ceiling space. Then run a cable from the sub-board for power (2.5mm twin and earth) into the ceiling space looped down and out of each power point location and back up into the ceiling space and down to the next and so on (leave about 300mm of each cable, in and out, hanging out of the plate). Lighting is next, run a cable from the sub-board for light (1.5mm twin and earth) into the ceiling space and down to each light switch location and back up into the ceiling space and down to the next light switch position and so on (leave about 300mm hanging out of the plate). Now for your lights, each light fitting is powered by switching the supply to the light fitting from the switch to the fitting by a switch cable (length light cable, 1.5 twin and earth) from each switched light position in the ceiling down to the light switch, bring it out of the light switch mounting plate with the in and out lighting circuit cables, be sure to mark it as the switch cable on the cable sheath where it hangs out of the light switch mounting plate. You will now have three cable ends hanging out of the light switch mounting plates, power in and out and the switch cable, about 300mm each. Power point mounting plates will all have two (power in and out) cable ends hanging out of each mounting plate, about 300mm each. It you have a number of lights in a room all switched by one switch then these are all connected to the one switch cable, simply loop the switch cable in and out of each light fitting position in the ceiling, similar to the power in and out of the switch positions. Once interior sheeting is completed, get your sparky back to do the fit off (fit the GPO's, light switches and light fittings). Many sparkys are happy to work this way on small jobs (cable jerking is a real PITA) and are happy to drop in to check your work early on and give advice here and there. This should reduce your costs considerably.


Cheers,

Screwy

 

[white.grant]

You can get gigabit wireless networking?

Still experimental, but it will come - http://www.csiro.au/science/psy0.html

 

[pokolbinguy]

+ 1 for the wireless setup.

If you are only planning to stream internet and simple household printer sharing etc over your network just pick up a wireless router, they come with built-in broadband modem for about $200 these days from memory that then allows you to add, move and modify as much as you want.

BUT...if you have the opportunity and cash then cables would be great for the quality factor...I guess its a matter of weighing up the pro's and con's and if you are going to turn your house in to some huge network gaming institution or similar.

Pok

 

[pbrosnan]

for about $300 of wireless router.

And that's a dear one. Although you'll probably want one of the extender ones just to be sure that the shed gets a strong signal. I have a Dlink modem and a Dlink access point, today they're worth about $160-$180 new.