Selling Your Beer

[mje1980]

There's nothing like internet forum legal advice!!. Can someone help me set up an investment trust fund ??

 

[Greg.L]

In NSW there is a big difference between city and regional brewers licences.
"For small-scale regional brewers and distillers, the licence also allows tastings and retail sales in bottles at the licensed premises." So for this you would need an RSA.
The price of a licence is $500, not $5000 and it is a once off, no annual fee. The main consent Authority is the local council who will need a DA, but this will not cost $50, more like $500.
As I said before, I have seen the local distiller selling spirits at our farmers markets, now I read it that was illegal, just another example of the laws being flouted. So if you want to be a microbrewer in NSW the first step would be to go to the council and ask for their advice (not use this forum).

 

[mje1980]

Honestly mate, just stop, and walk away. You aren't gunna recover from your initial few post's, which were full of terrible advice.

 

[wakkatoo]

I sold gave away some beer on the weekend.
My payment was a good feed, a few laughs with some buddies, and a weird story about muscovy ducks.


Buggar selling beer for money, that would take all the fun out of it! Unless I was making a lot of $$ I 'spose

 

[Greg.L]

One thing no-one has mentioned on this thread is the tremendous amount of good-will towards these sort of ventures from government in most areas, obviously not places where drinking is already a problem. Microbreweries employ locals and attract tourists, just the sort of business most councils want. So long as you are sensible about complying with the rules and take a positive attitude, you won't have many problems.In NSW State govt has taken a very "hands off" approach, unless there is some sort of problem. The tax office are very understanding with small business, though obviously you have to pay the excise. Some people view government as nasty bogy-men, that hasn't been my experience at all. You always have to have a positive, friendly and accommodating approach when dealing with officialdom.
I think in NSW, if you already have a liquor licence, getting a producers licence would be very easy. The excise licence would be a hassle but I couldn't see any fee. In recent years this sort of thing has been made a lot easier.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

One thing I must confess is that since I looked into it, the NSW gov has changed the rules with regard to licencing, thank god for that

 

[mikec]

A friend of mine recently called and asked about homebrew specific laws from OLGR (NSW). The below is the basics of it and assumes you do not have a company, ABN and reside in NSW. That is, a homebrewer. Though some laws are federal.

You can NOT sell your beer to anybody.
You can NOT profit in any way, shape or form.
You can NOT use the beer to barter with, or exchange for any goods or services.

I found this bit interesting. A lot of things get sold/given away here, in return for "a bottle of your finest"...
Youz are all crooks!

 

[Parks]

You can NOT use the beer to barter with, or exchange for any goods or services.

I found this bit interesting. A lot of things get sold/given away here, in return for "a bottle of your finest"...
Youz are all crooks!

This is not unique to beer, it is for anything. The basic idea is that payment of any good or service must have a monetary value which must be declared to the tax man.

In my opinion though, the tax man is only concerned with systematic rorting and wouldn't ever take action against the Aussie standard of giving your mate a 6 pack or a carton for helping you move house.

 

[mikec]

This is not unique to beer, it is for anything. The basic idea is that payment of any good or service must have a monetary value which must be declared to the tax man.

In my opinion though, the tax man is only concerned with systematic rorting and wouldn't ever take action against the Aussie standard of giving your mate a 6 pack or a carton for helping you move house.

I think it's more about not having a license to sell alcohol, than it is about tax.
But I agree 1000000% that there is absolutely no way anyone would give a **** about us swapping a few beers for anything except big piles of money.

 

[Greg.L]

I think it's more about not having a license to sell alcohol, than it is about tax.
But I agree 1000000% that there is absolutely no way anyone would give a **** about us swapping a few beers for anything except big piles of money.

Well, I have to disagree. You would be in much more trouble with the tax dept than the OLGR, if they ever took exception to such activity (which they won't).
These days in Australia money is more important than a few pesky laws.

 

[lukiep8]

These days in Australia money is more important than a few pesky laws.

Tell that to the ATO when I asked whether we, or the breweries, could pay the package excise on 50L kegs so that growlers could be filled from 50L kegs. They flat out said no, and if anyone is caught doing so, the place and the brewery would be significantly fined.

So to summarise:

Offered ATO more money.
They rejected it.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Tell that to the ATO when I asked whether we, or the breweries, could pay the package excise on 50L kegs so that growlers could be filled from 50L kegs. They flat out said no, and if anyone is caught doing so, the place and the brewery would be significantly fined.

So to summarise:

Offered ATO more money.
They rejected it.

Lukie - how does the excise work for your growler operations?

 

[lukiep8]

30L kegs are taxed exactly the same as bottled product, which is what a growler/squealer is. You are basically re-packaging a beer, so it has to fall under the exact same excise, or you are committing tax fraud.

The only way to fill from 50L's, is if you have an excise license (such as a brewery, because shops cannot get them), and you pay excise based on re-filling. I don't know exactly how it works, since it is completely irrelevant to us at this stage, but I know a few breweries do it this way.

 

[eamonnfoley]

30L kegs are taxed exactly the same as bottled product, which is what a growler/squealer is. You are basically re-packaging a beer, so it has to fall under the exact same excise, or you are committing tax fraud.

The only way to fill from 50L's, is if you have an excise license (such as a brewery, because shops cannot get them), and you pay excise based on re-filling. I don't know exactly how it works, since it is completely irrelevant to us at this stage, but I know a few breweries do it this way.

So do you pay full excise for the keg, then full excise for the re-packaging? So a double-dip tax?

 

[lukiep8]

No. The package excise is already paid on the 30L keg, so no other excise needs to be paid, since you are just re-packaging it into the same value excise container.

50L pay FAR less excise, so to re-package that, you have to pay basically full package excise on the growler or squealer container, which legally can't be done by stores, bars, etc.