Secondary Or Not?

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

Thanks all for your very useful advice. Being a bottler (I do spend a lot of time dreaming of a keg system but usually wake up when the dream gets to the part where I am 150Kg and constantly drunk), I understand the very relevant points about letting the fermentation finish before seriously cooling the brew. In anycase its not an issue for me as I am a basics brewer at this stage....No extra fridge.

A few more Q's

When I come to decanting to secondary for the first time (probably over Easter), I had thought I would do something like the following

Put aside sanitation here. Take it as given that I am very conscientious on this subject. Preparation always includes sometime praying at the temple of the god of sterility.

I use a length of silicon tubing when bottling and I had thought to use this to transfer from my brew from my coopers fermenter to my Brewmaster fermenter(See thread on "What fermenter do you use" for pics).

Questions.

1 - Am I better to siphon (from top down) or just use the tap?

2 - Should I try to run the beer down the inside wall of the secondary or just run it straight in? i.e. avoid foaming and aeration or just go for it?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Stuster]

Atom

1. Either will work fine. I find syphoning from top leads to less sediment, but really whichever is easy.

2. You do not want to introduce any oxygen into the beer at this stage. You're best off with tubing long enough to go to the bottom of the fermenter you are racking to to avoid any aeration.

3. I don't rack any more anyway but it's always good to experiment with your own system. I may try racking again as a test. Be interested to know how it goes for you.

:beer:

 

[dickTed]

I've had a batch in secondary for 4 weeks, and another for 1 week.
The first was meant to be bottled, but I am getting very short of bottles and stubbies. (I've eased off drinking but kept brewing)( Trying to get back into my R.M.Williams jeans)

I rang the LHBS and asked if he has a regulator. I know he's got kegs and gas. He'll have a reg today, so there'll soon be plenty of empty bottles around here.

The cool weather negates the need for fermenting fridges, so one of them can pose as a keg fridge until next summer.

Reckon I'll be asking stupid questions about gas pressure and force carbonation by tonight.

 

[Jazzafish]

Sometimes I rack, sometimes I don't... My decision depends on taken samples clarity and gravity.

If I'm close to final gravity and it looks like mud, I'll rack it to another fermenter and in extreme cases add finnings. However I try to obey the purity law when I can get away with it.

Also if there is alot of sedimate, threatening to rise anove the tap level...I tend to rack.

However, if it is almost finnished fermenting, there is a tolerable amount of sedimate, and it is clear... I'll bypass secondary and condition it in a keg.

 

[cubbie]

This thread has encouraged me to rack (?) my current brew. Iwas given a second fermenter recently. Can I use this as the secondary.

Any pointers or hints?

[post="119709"][/post]​

Just back on this comment.

Yes a second fermenter is fine, however you would be better off using a food grade jerry can,cube or other container that has a smaller head space than a fermenter. This will decrease your risk oxidation. You can pick them up for $20 or less.

Secondly you have two process to consider here.

Mostly this thread has talked about Secondary although CC'ing (Cold Conditioning/Lagering) has also been mentioned. these are 2 distinct processes.

Secondary, is generally considered to be secondary fermentation. Ie you move the beer off the yeast cake and allow it to ferment out the final few points, and clean up the flavour profile. this obviously clears the beer somewhat as well.

CC'ing - When considering ales is primarily for improving the clarity of the beer, though I beleive it improves the beer flavour wise as well.
For lagers the process is called lagering (cold storing) and is generally done over a longer period of time. Lagering will greatly improve your lagers, as well as clear the beer. To CC/Lager you drop the temp of the beer to a range of 0-5c.

What ever process you chose, both will clear your beer. You may want to try a few different routines and see what you like. For the record.

Ales - after 1 week primary I rack to secondary for a week and the in the same vessle CC for a week.
Lagers - After 2 weeks primary i do a rest (raise temp) for about 48 hours and then rack to jerry can and lager for 4 weeks.


Well that was my brief on the process. I am sure you can get better info from most other members and following some of the links posted.

 

[mje1980]

I am a kegger, and my most brewed beers are bitters and pales. I have found that i prefer to not give them a secondary, as i like to drink these beers young while the flavours are still strong. I find after a month or so the flavour smooths out, which is great, but, just like a weizen, i think a bitter ( especially a low gravity bitter ) is best drunk young. As for clarity, my beers are always at least see through, albeit not completely. But usually, depending on the yeast strain, will clear after a few weeks in the keg.

 

[Mr Bond]

I rack all ales except weizens

 

[poppa joe]

Try racking going from tap to tap.
I do and it is easy as///
cheers
PJ

 

[dickTed]

My normal procedure these days is 2 weeks primary and 2 weeks secondary.

 

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

Try racking going from tap to tap.
I do and it is easy as///
cheers
PJ

[post="120371"][/post]​

Ta Poppa Joe.

I went tap to tap and it was piss easy.

Lost a couple of litres (left behind), but I guess thats the price you pay.

 

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

Bottled my first attempt at racking last night.

Looking good. Near as you like to Crystal clear, Very fine head I think and a beautiful palish amber. I was aiming at a very refreshing, light bodies, full flavoured, quaffing beer, and so far I reckon it might be close. Pity I missed the summer with it.

There was hardly any sediment left in the fermenter too.

The Temps in melbourne have been low recently so this brew has hardly come up above 16C. I racked the brew on day 11 (OG - 1038 > SG - 1008). I didnt fridge it and left it for another 6 days then bottle (FG - 1005).


Whoooeee I cant wait to give this a burl, but Ill have to wait for about 3 weeks as I used Pride of Ringwood and Aus Cluster.

Thanks all for the advice. Very helpful.

Does anyone know what other qualities are effected by the secondary apart from clarity?

 

[Jim - Perth]

I started racking to secondary on my 5th brew & have not stopped since.
I have decided to be more flexible in future & take it on a case by case basis.
Unless the brew is a bit cloudy at the end of primary I am going to try giving up the secondary & (immediately after primary) either 1) racking/bulkpriming into the bottling bucket immediately prior to bottling it; or
2) racking it into jerry for cc'ing.
In either case I will give it longer in primary than I used to.

 

[spambait]

I've racked to secondary for most of my brews for all of the usual reasons (clarity, shelf-life, visual appeal, karma, etc...), but there are a few more reasons that I tend to use secondary to help me finish things off.

1. Beer that's had a chance to age a little without sitting on all that dead yeast tends to feel a little cleaner on the palate... or so I think. I guess that just one of those personal preference things. I know a guy who's quite happy to drink all of the dregs at the bottle of a bottom of home brew just because it's really yeasty, where I'd feel ill (and somewhat purged) if I did the same.

2. Secondary is when I tend to add the Insinglass, as I can do so without stirring up the sediment just to get my finings in... and it also helps me avoid knocking the beer about too much and risking oxidation, as I usually put the Insinglass in the secondary fermenter first, and then allow the beer to mix itself into the Insinglass just by the usual gentle swirling action that occurs naturally whenever you transfer a liquid from one vessel to another.

3. I tend to use liquid yeasts almost exclusively, and it can sometimes be a little hard to get the yeast at it's freshest. As a result, I've had several batches where the fermentation gets a little stuck, and I find that once a half-finished beer has been transferred to secondary, the yeast seems to behave as if it's partying at somebody else's house and suddenly gets all active again... I guess because the yeast cells have found a "new" source of fermentables.

Just my 2c worth.

S.

 

[Tseay]

I have a slightly different problem and would appreciate the readerships' advice.
I have two beers almost at the end of primary, one a bitter, the other an APA. ( around 1015 yesterday).

They have to be gassed and ready for consumption by Saturday afternoon.

Normally I'd rack to secondary and then cold condition, but on this occasion, time is of the essence. My preference is to rack the beers tonight and give them several days cold conditioning to clear then a little ( esp the APA) before kegging.

Alternatively I could then rack to secondary and let them finish off fermentation at 18-20 c and then keg.

Grateful for any ideas and comments.

Cheers

T

 

[Stuster]

It depends on if you think it's done or not. It seems that you think fermentation is not quite done. IMO you'd be better off letting it sit in primary as long as you can. Leaving on this yeast cake is (from my reading and my experience) going to clear up the flavour of the beer more quickly than transferring it to a secondary. Have a look at this link, even John Palmer agrees with no secondary now. :lol:

In the next edition of HtB, I confess that I rarely rack to a secondary these days, and I no longer recommend racking every beer to a secondary to get it off the trub.
As many other brewers have noted, just leaving it alone in the primary for 3-4 weeks accomplishes the secondary fermentation or conditioning processes, and the beer is much improved over one that was moved too soon. Like MtnBrewer, I rack lagers*, and high gravity beers, and fruit beers. Otherwise I just leave it in the primary.

*I didn't rack a Vienna I make for the SCal homebrew fest last year, just lagered it in the primary and it was great.

I have tasted autolyzed beer while judging, so it can happen, but I have never had it happen to me. Good yeast practice, good fermentation practice, = no need to rack most of the time.
Cheers,
John

 

[KoNG]

interesting stuster. is that from his website...?
Tseay, i've had a lot of my brews halting at around 1.015 some even 1.016 (i think my problem has been S-04 dropping out and forming cement in the bottom of my fermenter.!) i think your best bet would be to give the primary a little shake, swirl or stir to re-suspend (that has been getting me the next few points)... then maybe rack and chill on wednesday/thursday for a day or 2 if you think its needed.

All that said 1.015 is good if you ask me for the bitter. little less abv but its a great FG for english beers IMHO.

 

[Stuster]

Kong

No it's from a Brewboard thread. Follow the link above. It's a few pages, lots of experienced brewers don't use secondary any more. John's comments are on page 3 I think.

I agree with Kong, 1015 should be fine, depending on the original gravity. :unsure:

 

[Tseay]

Guys,

Thanks for the input.

I'll hold it in primary at 18/20c for as long as possible then chill it in the primary before transfering it to the keg. Both OGs were around 1045. Used English Ale yeast with the bitter and the Californian Ale yeast with the APA. The APA was showing some signs of active fermentation as of yesterday. Bitter SG seems to have stopped falling.

Thanks

T

 

[RobboMC]

I have wanted to move to secondaryfermenting so my ales can get some flavour enhancement before bottling. Also takes the pressure off getting round to the bottling once primary is complete. I have read in an american bewing book that the secondary vessel MUST be a glass carboy. Is this true, or can it be food grade plastic? I fully understand the need to reduce oxidation and that it needs to be smaller than the primary vessel. My solution will be to make the brew up to the same volume as the secondary. Should I leave any head room is secondary or fill it right up?
Yes, I know it needs an airlock or it may blow the lid off.
But reading some of this I am starting to wonder if secondary is worth it at all.

How long can I leave in primary without getting autolosis? I recently left a brew forn 14 days after after obvious fermentation ceased and all was Ok.

 

[T.D.]

The last 10 or so ales I have brewed have not been racked to secondary. This has mainly been due to me having a bunch of beers fermenting all at once and not having any spare fermenters, but its also basically because I don't see the point anymore. I find there is virtually no difference between a beer that has been racked to secondary and one that hasn't. I am getting a keg system imminantly and when I do I will rack into a keg, and CC it in the keg until I require it to be on tap. I am predicting this will be the only form of "secondary" that I use for ales in future.