Rehydrating Saflager 34/70

[Brewmeister70]

I made a beer on Friday with Saflager 34/70 for the first time (have used the S-23 before with no problems).

The trouble began when I rehydrated the yeast in 39 degree water --this has not been a problem with other yeasts and I find they take off in a far shorter time frame. This one did NOTHING.

There was no familiar and comforting foaming: it all just sank to the bottom and looked lifeless.

Off course, I pitched it anyway and there was no apparent activity after 4 hours even though I used an aquarium pump to get the aeration going (20 mins) and chilled yeast and wort down to 20 degrees before I pitched (lowest I could get it with ice water immersed plate chiller).

I ended up buying another two packets and pitching them straight on top the next day and there was a small ammount of activity but no krausen foam yet.

Is this normal for this yeast? It's going well, though still with a lowish kraesen head at 10 degrees, but I'm not willing to spend $13.50 on this yeast again just to get off to a normal start! Might aswell buy Wyeast and start it at that price.

Any advice on this yeast's behaviour would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers :beer:

 

[Screwtop]

I made a beer on Friday with Saflager 34/70 for the first time (have used the S-23 before with no problems).

The trouble began when I rehydrated the yeast in 39 degree water --this has not been a problem with other yeasts and I find they take off in a far shorter time frame. This one did NOTHING.

There was no familiar and comforting foaming: it all just sank to the bottom and looked lifeless.

Off course, I pitched it anyway and there was no apparent activity after 4 hours even though I used an aquarium pump to get the aeration going (20 mins) and chilled yeast and wort down to 20 degrees before I pitched (lowest I could get it with ice water immersed plate chiller).

I ended up buying another two packets and pitching them straight on top the next day and there was a small ammount of activity but no krausen foam yet.

Is this normal for this yeast? It's going well, though still with a lowish kraesen head at 10 degrees, but I'm not willing to spend $13.50 on this yeast again just to get off to a normal start! Might aswell buy Wyeast and start it at that price.

Any advice on this yeast's behaviour would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers :beer:

I have difficulty understanding why you would want to rehydrate using water that was too warm, then go to the trouble of aerating to improve conditions.

From the Fermentis site:

Properties:
This famous yeast strain from Weihenstephan in Germany is used world-wide within the brewing industry. Thanks to its technological properties, this strain has become the most popular strain for lager brewing and is used by industrial breweries and brewing groups around the globe. Sedimentation: high. Final gravity: medium.
Dosage:
80 to 120 g/hl for pitching at 12C 15C. Increase dosage for pitching below 12C, up to 200 to 300 g/hl at 9C.
Pitching instructions:
Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 23C 3C. Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C. Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.
Fermentation temperature:
Recommended fermentation temperature: 9C 15C, ideally 12C.

Read up on yeast prior to pitching, educate yourself regarding it's use.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[goatherder]

Yep, 39 sounds way too hot for rehydrating anything. That's pretty close to yeast certain death temperature.

It sounds like your beer has started, you'll probably get away with it. I reckon pitching 2 packets of any lager yeast is worthwhile anyway.

 

[Brewmeister70]

Wow! I was lucky to have gotten away with it starting at all considering its upper limits from their website. Didn't think to check online about it at the time but have learned my lesson.

 

[Hogan]

Is this normal for this yeast? It's going well, though still with a lowish kraesen head at 10 degrees, but I'm not willing to spend $13.50 on this yeast again just to get off to a normal start! Might aswell buy Wyeast and start it at that price.


Cheers :beer:

If you are paying $6.75 per satchel of 34/70 you might reconsider your supplier. He is ripping you off.


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[ausdb]

39C yeast cream down to whatever your wort temp was was probably too big a shock as well. I used a few packs of Nottingham last weekend and went down the rehydrating / making yeast cream route. I know you have used a fermentis yeast but danstar lallemand recommend a maximum of 10C between rehydrated yeast and wort temp when pitching, otherwise adding some wort to the yeast to bring the temp down.

Repeat after me "I am a yeast abuser"

 

[dr K]

It sounds like your beer has started, you'll probably get away with it. I reckon pitching 2 packets of any lager yeast is worthwhile anyway.

I am with Goatherder on this. Dried yeast manufacturer's state the dosage is 0.5g per litre for ale and 1g per litre for lager, so 22 litres = 22g or two packs. In fact for proper lager fermentation (<10C) Fermentis suggest for 22 litres you pitch 4, 5 or even six packs.

K

 

[Sammus]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, Palmer recommends here to rehydrate dry yeast at 35-40C. I followed those directions for all dried yeast for a long time without ever killing anyway. Started to feel funny about it though, after reading everything fermentation temps etc, and brought my rehydration temps down to 25ish.

Now days I'm culturing starters from pin heads though... so rehydrating is a thing of the past anyway

S

 

[dr K]

The standard procedure from Lallemand et al is to rehydrate in exactly that manner, I think the Fermentis instructions are to make a cream....
Yeh..it confuses me too !!

K

 

[wessmith]

As the old Castrol ad used to say "oils aint oil" Same with dried yeasts - Lallemand and Fermentis use totally different processes to produce their respective products. The rehydration procedures are different too - with Lallemand for instance, they stress "do not use wort to rehydrate", with Fermentis wort is OK. I think the danger here is in assuming that because the yeasts are a "dried" variety, they are the same - they are not, and the instructions should be followed for each product.

I am surprised Jonathan Palmer did not qualify his comment though.

Wes

 

[blackbock]

I ended up buying another two packets and pitching them straight on top the next day and there was a small ammount of activity but no krausen foam yet.

Is this normal for this yeast? It's going well, though still with a lowish kraesen head at 10 degrees, but I'm not willing to spend $13.50 on this yeast again just to get off to a normal start! Might aswell buy Wyeast and start it at that price.

Any advice on this yeast's behaviour would be greatly appreciated.

BM70,

In addition to what others have already said, regarding the behaviour of W34/70 in general:

I always find W34/70 to be a sluggish yeast at the best of times, particularly at 10C. For me. it tends to form only a very slight Krusen ring, and this can take quite a while to become apparent. It also doesn't finish as dry as some other strains. Even with healthy pitching quantities the yeast doesn't always take off like it should, certainly not like some ale yeasts do, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can be misleading if you are using airlock activity or general foaminess as a guide. Next time try to obtain fresher yeast, or try a different strain - the newer Saflager which Cr@ftbr*w*r resells seems to take off much much quicker.

 

[matti]

W34/70 CAN BE SLUGGISH YES BUT, It's all about your pitching methods.

I put 2 sachet in 100 ml water @ 20 degrees and allowed to sink in.
Put it on stir plate for 1/2 hour.
Added some fresh cooled wort to it and stirred for another 1/2 hour @ 16 degrees.
Aerated the wort to the buggery.
Pitched at 16 degrees
24 hour later I aerated again.

1 1/2 inch krausen and plenty of activity sitting at 10 degrees.

 

[blackbock]

W34/70 CAN BE SLUGGISH YES BUT, It's all about your pitching methods.

I put 2 sachet in 100 ml water @ 20 degrees and allowed to sink in.
Put it on stir plate for 1/2 hour.
Added some fresh cooled wort to it and stirred for another 1/2 hour @ 16 degrees.
Aerated the wort to the buggery.
Pitched at 16 degrees
24 hour later I aerated again.

1 1/2 inch krausen and plenty of activity sitting at 10 degrees.

Matti,

glad this works for you, but this kind of intensive care should not be necessary for a DRIED yeast!
If you have this kind of equipment and patience why not go for pure liquid strain? None of the above is recommended by the manufacturer, something is wrong if it is needed just to get going.

 

[MHB]

This rehydration question has been done to death, the best advice I could give is DON'T.

MHB

 

[Brewmeister70]

I am with Goatherder on this. Dried yeast manufacturer's state the dosage is 0.5g per litre for ale and 1g per litre for lager, so 22 litres = 22g or two packs. In fact for proper lager fermentation (<10C) Fermentis suggest for 22 litres you pitch 4, 5 or even six packs.

K

I ended up puttin 3 packets in ($4.50 ea) when you count the first packet that I blatantly abused... The wort tasted fantastic and with this much yeast in, am hoping it will ferment out quite fast - the brew has 500g of Leatherwood hoeny, which all yeasts tend to enjoy.