Red Ne-IPA (hopping, yeast and scheduals for the jusiest IPA?)

[Bbowzky1]

G'day guys,

I have some hops laying around and taking up room in the freezer. I've been wanting to give a Gladfiels red IPA a go for a while though given the hops on hand I'm gunna mix it up a bit.

I've decided to take a bit more of the NE (IPA) approach with the bio-transformation and keeping Gladfiels malt bill. My Hop schedule gives 77-ish IBUs, with 47 coming from FWH additions and rest late, with with 50g galaxy in primary of 23Lt (2.1g/L) and 55g of Amarillo, Chinook, Cascade & Citra as below in 19lt keg (2.8g/L) giving a dry hopping ratio of ~5g/L

Here are my thought, please feel free to offer suggestions, alterations, criticise, etc.
I'm hoping to achive a very nice, juicy hop forward beer using the below techniques.

Aiming for a OG of 1.062 with 21lt into fermenter using:
3.2kg 2-Row
1.2kg Vienna
950g Aurora
450g Shephards Delight
390g Red Back
260g Toffee

Mash schedule
In @38c
Protein rest 20min @48c
Maltrose 40min @63-64c
Saccrification 20min @73c
Out 10min @78c
And a sparge

Thought is to go for a full body amber water profile adjusted to 50ppm Ca, 7ppm Mg, 12ppm Na, 74ppm Cl and 50ppm SO4. Add 1ml lactic acid for a 5.45pH and a chloride/sulfate ratio of 1.5 to help with the dryness and bitterness of the hop schedule and mash profile.

I will be using both Bio-transformation and FWH techniques, both I have found to be amazing and produce great results.

30g Chinook @ FWH for 90min boil
12g Columbus @ FWH for 90min boil
15g Amarillo @ 30min
10g Cascade @ 30min
7.5g Galaxy @ 15min
5g Citra @ 15min
7.5g Galaxy @ 10min
5g Citra @ 10min
7.5g Galaxy @ 5min
5g Citra @ 5min
4g Galaxy @ 1min
3g Citra @ 1min
3.5g Galaxy @ 0min (flameout)
2g Citra @ 0min (flameout)

Crash chill to 19c

Using London Ale III - 1318 in stir plate starter (should be a really good yeast for Ne-IPA being a top cropper

50g Galaxy - Bio-transformation @ high krusen in primary

10days in secondary with cold conditioning
20g Citra
15g Amarillo
10g Cascade
10g Chinook

Cold Condition further 20days and tap keg.

Will be doing this Thursday or Friday, any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Looks like it will be a good beer however there are a few tweaks I'd make.
First one would be to drop the IBUs a bit as I think for an NEIPA flavour profile with a gravity of 1.062 you are probably after a total IBU of 50-60.
Also with the FWH, I would be halving that contribution to about 20IBU. A good rule of thumb I have found is 30% FWH to allow for plenty of late hops while also getting the benefits of FWH aroma retention. I also tend to favour mid AA hops for FWH such at Amarillo- something around the 8%AA mark.
I would simplify your hop additions and remove the 30 min , 15 min and 5 min additions. Do a FWH for 20 IBU, 10 minute flavour addition for 20 IBU and whirlpool for 20 IBU.

I'd also take a look at your water additions and try for Ca level around 70 ppm and up your sulfate levels to around 150ppm to get more from your hops.
With your first dry hop of Galaxy at HK- are you going to place this in a bag and remove after a few days? If not then Id strongly suggest you do as Galaxy left in wort for more than 3-4 days can become an issueW

All the above is IMO and experience and just the way I like to do things so take from it what you will.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Using London Ale III - 1318 in stir plate starter (should be a really good yeast for Ne-IPA being a top cropper

50g Galaxy - Bio-transformation @ high krusen in primary

10days in secondary with cold conditioning
20g Citra
15g Amarillo
10g Cascade
10g Chinook

Cold Condition further 20days and tap keg.

Will be doing this Thursday or Friday, any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

I would be looking to adjust a number things, like Droopy said, firstly drop the IBU, the style is more about low bitterness so somewhere around 50ibu on this and make sure you have your Chloride between 150-200ppm and the sulphate half of the chloride ppm.

FWH 50% of IBU - just use columbus or chinook you wont need both.
10min addition 50% of IBU
WP @ 75c for 20mins with at least 4 ounces of hops - those amounts you have suggested at 30, 15, 10, 5, 1 and FO are not enough and of no use scattered out like that. ( for this style )

When you reach high krausen ~ 48hrs into ferment - add at least another 4 ounces of hops

Transfer to secondary when ferment finishes and add another 2 ounces of hops, for another 3-4days @ 18-22c for warm extraction of the hop oils

Dont cold condition the beer for 20days..... that is a waste of time. After the 2nd dry hop in secondary is done, drop the temp to 16c to get most of the the yeast and hops to drop out, package to your serving keg, carbonate over 4-5days at 100kpa and serve that up.

 

[Garfield]

IMHO it looks like you've made a crossbreed of two different styles. With my understanding of a RIPA and a NEIPA, there are some distinct differences (e.g. sulphide/cholride) which would make it hard to achieve in the same batch. I'm no expert on NEIPA so hopefully others may contribute to this.

That said - that looks like a great brew. I go lighter on redback and sheps delight in my own reds but it's your call.

Droopy, I'll have to devil's advocate on this occasion as i'm a fan of a complex hop schedule. I've dropped 30min additions from my schedule but I generally FWH/15/10/5/0 for hop forward beers.

Garf's 2c

 

[Bbowzky1]

Hey droopy, never dry hopped with galaxy so thanks for the heads up on using a Bag, last time I used Citra for bio-trans on a Rye-IPA and it is like a tropical fruit punch popper might have to cut down a few IBUs tho thanks. Im Not entering any comps so a nice hoppy bitter amber red juicy concoction suits me. As long as its worth drinking. As for the FWH I've only ever done with Columbus and Simco, absolutely love both and I've done up to 35g with no issue.

Hey Dan, yeah I think ya right. I was to worried about balance this, counteract that, etc that I completely overlooked the hop forward Cl targets. I really find complex hop schedules make a difference in layer and complexity, it' something that once I did and it worked I've never changed, unfortunatly I'm a creature of habit haha. I'l
Look at the dry hopping quanties, I figured 50g galaxy at HK was basically a dry hop so cut the others down. I might save the 30min and dry addition of cascade and go 2-3x as much Amarillo on the dry and move the 30min amarillo in there to (great hop) only reason had the Columbus as FWH was cause had it left over and wanted it gone. Might just chuck him in dry ay?

Hey Garfield, what malt bill you use? I'e used Gladfiels exact bill excels subbed in a bit of aurora. Glad it looks like a nice beer in your eyes.

Thanks for all the feedback, definatly be taking some of this to brew day I tend to brew mungeral beers haha, never really make comp specific styles to guideines, just try and make up stuff that tastes good

Noted on the 2ndary, I do like to age my beers for a good 2 months before I drink em. And I make larger too so cold conditioning isnt a big issue as I have the resources. I see what ya saying about dry hopping at warmer temps tho, good call, I'll do that Thanks

Just putting an imperial russian-ish style stout, bastardised with some oatmeal (for the extra creamyness I get from the nitrogen mix gas I got ) into a carboy with some oak id used with aging a grain wiskey haha

 

[dan@twtr_dan]

I have never made a NEIPA so please maybe don't consider my comment.. I would have assumed there would be wheat and rolled oats to promote some more haze, but also mouthfeel and head retention. Also the Shepherd's Delight might give an overpowering flavour profile at that level (7%) considering you would want to drink fairly fresh and the Shepherd's Delight might take a few weeks to mellow out. However the Shepherd's Delight does give the colour EBC 300-350...

Perhaps if it were me to get a red haze NEIPA I would add ~500g Rolled Oats (and maybe rice hulls depending on your process?), ditch/reduce the Shepherd's Delight and substitute with wheat to get similar/more diastatic power. Then perhaps use the limited Red Back Wheat.. it doesnt have any diastatic power (hence the wheat above) but the colour is only 27 EBC.. so maybe a full kg??? / bump up the Aurora or std. Red Back??

Perhaps check out the Gladfield site as I think I recall Gabi making a red kolsch..

Anyway.. beer for thought and am interested in what you decide and how it turns out.

Cheers, Dan.

..edit..

I just re read and saw you were intending to cold crash so haze is probably not what you were after. Also agree with Dan about the dry hop duration. 10days is perhaps too long. I recently re did a brew and dry hopped and didnt get chance to bottle until d10. Compared to the 4 day version, the 10 day dry hop batch had lost a lot of the juiciness..

 

[Bbowzky1]

Aiming for a OG of 1.062 using
3.2kg 2-Row
1.2kg Vienna
950g Aurora
450g Shephards Delight
390g Red Back
260g Toffee

I've decided to stick with this grain bill as other then 900g of Aurora it'
The same as Gladfiels recipe.

Taking into account a few suggestions I've come up with the following water??? 120ppm Ca, 10ppm Mg, 13ppm Na, 133ppm Cl and 146ppm SO4.
5.4pH

So I've had a look at the hop schedule based on a few criticisms and come up with two ideas...

Option 1.
30g Chinook @ FWH for 90min boil
30g Galaxy @ 15min
40g Citra whirlpool at flamout

50g Galaxy - Bio-transformation @ high krusen in primary ~ 36hr for 4 days

10days in secondary
30g Amarillo
10g Chinook
12g Columbus

OR

Option 2.
30g Amarillo @ FWH for 90min boil
7.5g Galaxy @ 15min
5g Citra @ 15min
7.5g Galaxy @ 10min
5g Citra @ 10min
7.5g Galaxy @ 5min
5g Citra @ 5min
7.5g Galaxy @ 1min
5g Citra @ 1min
20g Citra @ flame out, steeping help at 70c for 20min before crash chill to 19c

50g Galaxy - Bio-transformation
~36hr for 4 days

10days in secondary
40g Chinook
12g Columbus

Thanks guys. I'l be brewing this Thursday or Friday. No time to get to brew shop so the types and quantities of hops are a given. Just depends on how we blend them.
Only other hops I have on hand atm is Nelson suavin and Cscade that's saved for a fat-ish yak recipe I like