Recommend me a new sanitiser

[sp0rk]

I use about a tablespoon in 5L

Met is fine but you are rinsing after, correct? No longer sanitised.

I was talking to a mate who is an engineer in a water treatment station
He claims in modern housing/systems with PEX pipes, etc, the water SHOULD be sterile, so rinsing after shouldn't affect sterility
Old lead/clay/etc pipes however may still have bacteria ingress from poor joins

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Percarbonate dosage is temperature dependent; I use 10 g/l @ 60 degrees, more if colder, less if hotter.

A couple of corrections of things written above:

The active ingredient in Starsan is the surfactant, not the phosphoric acid. The acid is there to keep the surfactant pH below 3, at this pH the surfactant dissolves the cell wall lipids so the technical term is "membrane disrupter".

SMBS is not a good sanitiser: many wild yeasts are very resistant to it.

Those who use PAA: where do you buy it? I've asked Grain and Grape but got a blank look.

 

[kaiserben]

A couple of corrections of things written above:

The active ingredient in Starsan is the surfactant, not the phosphoric acid. The acid is there to keep the surfactant pH below 3, at this pH the surfactant dissolves the cell wall lipids so the technical term is "membrane disrupter".

Keg King has a "Phosphoric Acid blend", whcih is 50% phosphoric acid and 15% dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid (which causes the foam). Dunno what the other 35% is??

But you can also get "Pure" Phosphoric Acid, which is 96% phosphoric and 4% filtered water. And according to Keg King this "can be used as a non-foaming non-rinse sanitiser when diluted with water to a concentration of 1ml/2Litres." Seemingly there's no surfactant in the pure phosphoric.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Keg King has a "Phosphoric Acid blend", whcih is 50% phosphoric acid and 15% dodecylbenzene sulfonic acid (which causes the foam). Dunno what the other 35% is??

But you can also get "Pure" Phosphoric Acid, which is 96% phosphoric and 4% filtered water. And according to Keg King this "can be used as a non-foaming non-rinse sanitiser when diluted with water to a concentration of 1ml/2Litres." Seemingly there's no surfactant in the pure phosphoric.

The DBS is the active ingredient, as stated above it acts as a membrane disrupter at low pH. The other 35% will be water.

Phosphoric is routinely used as a cleaner, especially in bright beer tanks where you can't use caustic (due to the CO2). I've never allowed its use as a non rinse, I always made the cellar follow up with PAA.

I know others have different experience, when told by someone they use phosphoric as a sanitiser and haven't had an infection I add one word: "yet".

 

[kaiserben]

I'm just going off the product description from Keg King (I've not used "pure" phosphoric as a sanitiser myself, but I did buy some which I plan to use as a sparge acidifier).

Here's the link to the product: LINKhttp://kegking.com.au/cleaners-and-sanitising-equipment/pure-phosphoric-acid-96-pure-300ml.html

Phosphoric acid (AKA orthophosphoric acid or H3PO4PE388) is a mineral inorganic acid.
The pure phosphoric acid can be used as a non-foaming non-rinse sanitiser when diluted with water to a concentration of 1ml/2Litres. Phosphoric acid is excellent at passifying stainless.
Phosphoric acid is also great for adjusting PH of sparge water.
Phosphoric acid can be completely metabolised by yeast and will act as a yeast nutrient if it ends up on your fermenter.

 

[tugger]

Percarbonate dosage is temperature dependent; I use 10 g/l @ 60 degrees, more if colder, less if hotter.

A couple of corrections of things written above:

The active ingredient in Starsan is the surfactant, not the phosphoric acid. The acid is there to keep the surfactant pH below 3, at this pH the surfactant dissolves the cell wall lipids so the technical term is "membrane disrupter".

SMBS is not a good sanitiser: many wild yeasts are very resistant to it.

Those who use PAA: where do you buy it? I've asked Grain and Grape but got a blank look.

Sopura chemicals sell paa as sopuroxide
Ecolabs sell it as vortex
The smallest container I can get is 20L.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

I'm just going off the product description from Keg King (I've not used "pure" phosphoric as a sanitiser myself, but I did buy some which I plan to use as a sparge acidifier).

Here's the link to the product: LINKhttp://kegking.com.au/cleaners-and-sanitising-equipment/pure-phosphoric-acid-96-pure-300ml.html

Sorry if you thought I was sniping at you, I wasn't.

IMO the Keg King description can be taken as a recommendation to use phosphoric as a sanitiser. This qualifies as bad advice in my book.

 

[kaiserben]

Not at all. No worries. I reckon I'll take your advice and stick with the acid blend foaming stuff for the sanitiser (and only use the "pure" stuff for a sparge acidifier).

 

[malt junkie]

If all else fails 5 drops of sweat from the breast of a virgin bride on the morning of her wedding.....

good luck finding one though

Just use Starsan or similar, simples

 

[mikec]

Starsan.
It's not expensive because it lasts FOREVER.
1.5ml per litre of cold water.

 

[wildburkey]

I've been using Brewmans BBW for cleaning and his Acid Sanitiser for sterilising with no issues thus far. I also use his PSR for cleaning old bottles and plastic fermenters that I suspect may have had infection and they have been fine too. Prob not the cheapest option as I have to ship to Tasmania but I have had a great experience using the brewbuilder and ordering through his store.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Here's what I use.
https://cyndan.com.au/en/cip-cleaners/280-proxitane-peroxy-acetic-acid-non-rinse-sanitiser.html

 

[MrTwalky]

Hydrogen Peroxide. If you're careful handling acids (glasses/gloves/mask) then you'll be fine and it will save you money. We had 15L cubes of the stuff when I was working in a brewery. It's the sanitiser you find in some of those no rinse premixed bottles at your LHBS.

Pro tip: UV light reduces it's effectiveness. The 15L cubes it comes in are black. I have a spray bottle covered in duct tape, which I change regularly.

 

[shacked]

+1 for Star san

I use sodium perc to clean until I run out. Then switch to PBW. Then back to sodium perc.

I had a good reason for doing that... I think...

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Those who use PAA: where do you buy it?

To answer my own question: I had a poke around and it doesn't look too hard to make, the simplest method uses peroxide and acetic acid with sulphuric acid as a catalyst.

Won't be going the acetic anhydride / 90% peroxide route though:

In the preparation of peracetic acid from acetic anhydride and H2O2, the dangerously explosive diacetyl peroxide may become the major product if the reaction is not carried out properly.1a

Quote from http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/047084289X.rp034/abstract;jsessionid=0EB0538598E1C2227309608C71FB459F.f04t02

 

[malt junkie]

LC between you and MB trying to teach us "How to blow **** up with your home brew gear" it's a wonder this site hasn't been flagged by the Feds and several foreign Intelligence agencies.

Then again all those paranoid brewers already know they're watch us?!!? h34r:

 

[barls]

LC between you and MB trying to teach us "How to blow **** up with your home brew gear" it's a wonder this site hasn't been flagged by the Feds and several foreign Intelligence agencies.

Then again all those paranoid brewers already know they're watch us?!!? h34r:

only watching some of us, and for good reason mate.

 

[malt junkie]

Crap!! Those reading glasses I got really do work. Pity I didn't use them when I posted that!!! All those MB's out there, it wan't you, it MHB that other crazy science guy.

 

[dicko]

And....when all the above fails, we may even just use......wait for it........Boiling Water!!!

 

[DJR]

keg king starsan knockoff here 75% of the time, 25% of the time i use some Iodophor i have had kicking around for far too long. I'd honestly just use the starsan all the time, i only use the iodophor to finish it off as i bought a lot of it a long time ago.

Between the two of them and pitching known good quantities of viable yeast i don't have issues.