Recipe For A Beer Like Hahn Super Dry

[Kodos]

I went to a lecture from Chuck Hahn a few months back on "the Science of Brewing" for national Science week. The lecture was low on science but generous in samples :icon_cheers:

The first sample was Hahn Superdry, and Chuck said it used Munich malt (to leave a little extra flavour) and Saaz hops. He seemed hesitant to give away exactly how they went about it, but hinted it was a combination of tweaking specific mash temps and possibly some extra enzymes to break down the starches as much as possible.

It has a lower FG than water! (I believe this is possible because alcohol has a very low gravity).

At one point someone in the lecture asked the point in brewing low-carb beers and he couldn't answer! (marketing methinks!).

Good luck finding a suitable recipe.

 

[DJR]

I was told by Mr Hahn they just used a 3 hour mash regime, i guess it probably means a step mash although i have heard of one megabrewery doing a 3 hour mash at 63-65C or so to make a very pale, highly attenuated beer (see http://www.byo.com/component/resource/arti...acts-mr-wizard). I asked about enzymes, he said no, but that may have changed since it was launched perhaps.

I'd be going 95% Aussie Pils and 5% Aussie Light munich, 64C mash for 3 hours with 10% of the dry grist removed from the initial strike and added back at 1h and 2h for extra enzyme activity, raise temps to 72C for Beta-amylase to finish off for a bit at the end, POR/Millenium/Galaxy/Topaz for bittering and Hersbrucker late hopping (probably only about 10-15g at 20m or so), fermented slightly warmish (13C) with a clean lager yeast like WLP830, WLP833 or WY2042. Lager on the warmish side (4-8C) and use Polyclar/Gelatin/filtering to finish it off. It'd be fermented and lagered under pressure and high gravity at Tooheys in multi storey cylindroconicals so the yeast side of things is always going to taste different at a non-pressurized 23L HB batch size.

It probably also contains a fair whack of cane sugar to get the attenuation down, easily 30% as that is the standard. Nowhere i've seen suggests it is all malt.

 

[marty iselin]

EGADS!

Prepare yourself for a trip to the zoo based on forthcoming replies.

 

[Kingy]

Old thread but has anyone got a recipe close to Hahn super dry.

 

[Florian]

There are a few good suggestions right in this thread if you get stuck. I reckon if you give them a go you'll get fairly close to what you want, unless you expect to produce an exact clone.

Others might have more recent tried and tested recipes though.

 

[seehuusen]

grave-dig number 2

I've got a mate who is coming over to Oz in October from the UK. While I love hop-bombs, he loves this beer, and I'd like to oblige
(don't start with the he should learn to drink craft beer, I'm happy to keep all the hops to myself )

Did any of you actually figure out what hop is used in this beer?

I'll be doing an AG version of this, current grain bill simply consists of Aussie Pilsner, Munich Malt and some Cara-pils for head retention.
I'll also be using 15% sugar to not add too much flavour to it.

Above I read that Saaz and Hallertau are the biggest contenders for hop varieties, although I'm sure POR wouldn't be bad in it either...

Thoughts on the best hop variety to use for it would be greatly appreciated

Cheers fellow brewers,
Martin

 

[labels]

grave-dig number 2

I've got a mate who is coming over to Oz in October from the UK. While I love hop-bombs, he loves this beer, and I'd like to oblige
(don't start with the he should learn to drink craft beer, I'm happy to keep all the hops to myself )

Did any of you actually figure out what hop is used in this beer?

I'll be doing an AG version of this, current grain bill simply consists of Aussie Pilsner, Munich Malt and some Cara-pils for head retention.
I'll also be using 15% sugar to not add too much flavour to it.

Above I read that Saaz and Hallertau are the biggest contenders for hop varieties, although I'm sure POR wouldn't be bad in it either...

Thoughts on the best hop variety to use for it would be greatly appreciated

Cheers fellow brewers,
Martin

I've got a fair stack of information here on AHB about brewing super clean lagers but I'll leave that up to you to research. I personally wouldn't use Joe White or BB pils malts. I would use Wey pils, it is much cleaner for lagers. You have to take into consideration that Lion Nathan are most likely using barley/malt varieties for these beers that are grown and malted exclusively for them. BB Galaxy would have been ideal for this style but, is sadly no longer available. Galaxy was both a barley variety and a malt.

Best hop I reckon is Hallertau Mittelfreu. Wyeast 2042 Danish is the best yeast IMHO, very clean but leaves a trademark impression that is very much liked. It is also very low flocculating so it lagers the beer very fast but drops brilliantly clear if held just below zero. All I can say is good luck, certainly very achievable if you take care.

 

[seehuusen]

Thanks for the feedback mate, I will try to locate some of that material and read up it. You wouldn't happen to have a link to some of this info, would you?

I may end up doing a comparison of the suggested grain supplier vs Aussie ones.
It's an experiment I've wanted to do for some time.

The attenuation I want, I should be able to reach using multiple mash step temps, airation and pitching plenty of healthy yeast. The sugar addition should keep the flavour lower, assist with abv and keep the dryness.
I saw you can get enzymes to assist with attenuation as well, are these any good?

As for the danish yeast, i grew up there and in my humble opinion, it isn't close to any Aussie lagers in terms of esters. The final product is substantially different, but thanks for the tip.
For the yeast I'm thinking saflager, which I've used before for a pretty close clone of Carlton mid.

For my first batch, Hallertau it is then thanks again

 

[dicko]

If and when I make a similar beer I use Por and Hallateur Hersbruker.

I find the comment of it having a lower FG than water very interesting.
Next time my son leaves a stubby of it at my place ( he drinks that crap at times ) I will knock the lid off and check the gravity and report back on here.

I have tried Wy 2042, Wy 2001, Dry S189, S23, and 34/70 all with close results. IMO the 34/70 and the Wy 2001 just leaves a slighter sweetness in the beer which is not the same as the original but nice anyway.

Good luck with your clone

 

[seehuusen]

Appreciate your input Dicko, very good info on the yeast varieties.
Looking back at my recipes, 34/70 was what I used for my Carlton Mid clone, and it did have that slight sweet tone to it. I associate that with TED as well, but not as much with the Super Dry...

Perhaps a split batch is in order, S189 vs 34/70

If you do get around to measuring the FG, please let us know
I think Woolies are doing something with BWS and discounting a sixer to $10! Might grab one on the weekend myself to compare with.

 

[dicko]

Seehuusen,

Here is a screenshot of a recipe I did recently which was enjoyed by the Mega Groupies

 

[dicko]

And this was my mash schedule.

 

[dicko]

The above beer finished at 1.006 with the 34/70

You may get it a little lower with the Wy 2042 or the S 189 but you would be splitting hairs over it.
As I said I rather liked the sweetness which seemed to be offered by the 34/70 or the Wy 2001.

Anyway good luck with it.

 

[Bribie G]

What beer does your mate like in the UK. Is he a pom or an expat?
Pommy lagers are quite easy (Carling etc) as are many of their bitters, without going berserk on exotic hops and fancy malts.

 

[dicko]

One of my mates always said it was like "Sex on a Beach" and it appears he was right....Fu&@?n near water!!

Shame Chuck Hahn Shame!!!!!

 

[waggastew]

One thought is to brew a slightly higher gravity/IBU lager (say 6%/30IBU) and then dilute it down post ferment with deoxygenised water. Apart from mimicking the commercial process it has a few advantages:

- More finished beer than you have to ferment

- Dilutes both wanted and unwanted flavours which is very similar to the superdry beers

- Means your apparent attenuation also drops i.e. ferment finishes at 1.012ish but diluted will be closer to 1.004ish

I made a mongrel keg of 1/3 Helles, 1/3 Aussie lager, and topped up with water. Ended up very similar to commercial Superdry beers.

Stew

 

[seehuusen]

Thanks heaps Dicko, really good information :kooi:
Your recipe looks surprisingly close to the recipe I am going to do,

77.5% Jim White Export Pilsner
4.5% Jim White Munich Malt
3.0% Briess Carapils/ Dextrine
15% Sugar (Dextrose)

Hop addition at 60 mins to 15 IBU of POR or Saaz (which I already had in the freezer)... or go the recommended Hallertau. started tossing up on that choice today after checking what I had lying around

I couldn't get S189 from lhbs, but have 34/70 in the fridge.

Ah yeah, the lhbs has something called Low Carb Dry Enzyme, which I was thinking I might give a shot... Any thoughts on that?

Thanks WaggaStew for the suggestion of brewing a higher OG wort, I believe reading somewhere that Bribie G did (does?) something like that too.
I might give that a shot, for that added dryness. The picture Dicko posted suggests quite a low FG...

Bribie G, my mate is normally drinking Heineken back in the UK, but really likes the Aussie megas... In fact he tried to get a carton of Super Dry in London, and when they said it was 55 pounds, he politely declined to that LOL

Cheers,
Martin

 

[Bribie G]

Believe it or not when I'm at the local Manning Point Bowls club which, as with most country establishments, is Tooheys, VB, XXXX Gold and the two OldFart Lite beers, Super Dry is the beer I go to as it's quite unobjectionable, full strength and lacks the mouse piss twang of VB.

Instead of cluttering up the page here I can PM you a recipe for a version of Cascade Premium Lager that got me a second in the Nats a couple of years ago. It's quite straightforward and can be done in about three weeks grain to brain.
Turns out typical Aussie Mega although not quite as clean as the commercials (a very difficult task for most home brewing) - you could even infest it with some dry enzyme to get you there.

The recipe is based on some info leaked to an AHB member from Cascade, combined with some hints from an Abbotsford brewer who doesn't post here any more, whose name will remain unspoken.

edit: Martin, re your first post I'd recommend Cluster. POR is more of a CUB thing and I'm not sure if Hanh Lion actually use that hop, but could be mistaken. CUB have their own hop extract facility that uses POR and I'd guess that Lion don't have access????

 

[labels]

<snip
Instead of cluttering up the page here I can PM you a recipe for a version of Cascade Premium Lager that got me a second in the Nats a couple of years ago. It's quite straightforward and can be done in about three weeks grain to brain.
<snip

Wouldn't mind if you sent that recipe my way as well, I'd be quite interested.

I have, by accident, made an almost exact copy of Carlton Draught. Certainly not a beer I like much at all but I was chuffed at making a reasonably good copy.

 

[Bribie G]

Ok, here 'tis.

The trick is to do a two hour mash at 62 degrees to dry out the beer, raise fairly gradually to mashout to take the beer through the alpha amylase zone, then ferment at a certain temperature range, then lager for ten whole entire days. I've posted this a couple of times in other threads.

For a more Hahn Dry experience I'd sub the POR with Cluster, drop the IBU to around 18 and even use the dreaded dry enzyme. If kegging an even better embellishment would be to filter.

On that point we rarely hear about filtering on the forum any more, maybe not done too much. A good gelatine fine in the keg would probably polish the beer up.


Aussie Lager
Australian Premium Lager

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.600
Total Hops (g): 45.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.048 (°P): 11.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.009 (°P): 2.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.04 %
Colour (SRM): 3.1 (EBC): 6.1
Bitterness (IBU): 23.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Pale Malt (86.96%)
0.600 kg Cane Sugar (13.04%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Pride of Ringwood Pellet (8.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
25.0 g Hersbrucker Pellet (2.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1.1 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
5.0 g BrewBright @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 62°C for 120 Minutes.
Fermented at 13°C with Wyeast 2042 - Danish Lager

Notes
----------------
Hersbrucker plugs x2 or Hersbrucker pellets.

Mash at 62 for two hours then raise to mashout at 78

Ferment at 13 for four days then let it rise to 19 degrees over four days and hold for a couple of days (total ten days)

Lager at -1 for ten days.





Recipe Generated with BrewMate