Recipe Critique

[PoN]

I do get through my sparge fairly quick and I sparge until I reach the volume I am aiming for. The malt pipe in the robobrew seems to run the sparge water through pretty fast and I do it as per the instructions.

The mash temp seems to always be a few degrees lower than what the thermostat reads on the robobrew. But even if it's set at 66 degrees but the actual temp is 62 degrees, my efficiency should still be ok.

My robobrew has the volumes marked on it.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I do get through my sparge fairly quick and I sparge until I reach the volume I am aiming for. The malt pipe in the robobrew seems to run the sparge water through pretty fast and I do it as per the instructions.

There is your problem

 

[contrarian]

There's a lot of factors that contribute to mash efficiency and water chemistry is probably the last place to look rather than the first.

That said if you want to rule pH out try adding 2-3% of acidulated malt to your grain bill and see if it does anything.

 

[PoN]

Water chemistry has pretty much been the last place I have looked.

Any ideas on how to not do a quick sparge with a robobrew? Not too sure what I can do differently. I pour my strike water in so its just covering the mash and it just flows through really quick.

 

[Lethaldog]

I've never used a robobrew so I can't help you there, I mash in a 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler and just use the ball lock tap to adjust flow, can you rig up some sort of tap to adjust flow to these?

Edit: haven't these got a tap on the front? Can you not adjust flow rate with this?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What is a Robobrew..?

Sparg should take as long as mashing, especially if batch sparging. Fly sparging take a bit less time

 

[Lethaldog]

I'm not really sure but I think it's like another version of a grainfather!

 

[PoN]

https://onlinebrewingsupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6/image/470x605/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/2/1240robo2.jpg

That's the set up for a robobrew when sparging. The malt pipe is on top and you just pour water into it which flows into the main vessel. There is no tap to control the flow.

 

[manticle]

What is a Robobrew..?

Sparg should take as long as mashing, especially if batch sparging. Fly sparging take a bit less time

Do you mean the other way round?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I dont fly sparge, only batch, and I let the sparge water sit for 10-15 mins with the occasional stir before running off. Do that 3-4 times and it takes a good hour to do 28-30L

Gets me 80%

 

[timmi9191]

https://onlinebrewingsupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6/image/470x605/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/2/1240robo2.jpg

That's the set up for a robobrew when sparging. The malt pipe is on top and you just pour water into it which flows into the main vessel. There is no tap to control the flow.

Could you leave the malt pipe in, drain the wort slowly out of the tap. Close tap and refill with the sparge water and give a stir/recirc for a bit. Drain slowly again. Repeat those steps until you hit your pre boil volume??

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

An also measure for runnings to see what SG you are getting

Each running with be less and less

 

[manticle]

I dont fly sparge, only batch, and I let the sparge water sit for 10-15 mins with the occasional stir before running off. Do that 3-4 times and it takes a good hour to do 28-30L

Gets me 80%

OK. Similar story with me but I only do 2-3 batch sparges and my mash often exceeds 60.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

PoN
If you care enough you will get a decent PH meter with calibration fluids. Use it properly.
I'd say around +/- 2% Acidulated malt to your grains could be the fix keeping it simple.
Sparging carefully as well. I feel glad to have Melbourne water on tap. Its around pH 7.2. After my filter its about pH 6. So its coming down to very small amounts of water chemistry now.
Don't go crazy with water chemistry additions. I think the pH is more the key to it all but with some moderate mineral levels in the water as well.
$0.02

 

[timmi9191]

If you care enough you will get a decent PH meter with calibration fluids. Use it properly.
I'd say around +/- 2% Acidulated malt to your grains could be the fix keeping it simple.
Sparging carefully as well. I feel glad to have Melbourne water on tap. Its around pH 7.2. After my filter its about pH 6. So its coming down to very small amounts of water chemistry now.
Don't go crazy with water chemistry additions. I think the pH is more the key to it all but with some moderate minerals in the water as well.
$0.02

Some slight corrections Dan:

Mash Ph not water ph is the key.

Melbourne water does vary greatly my water report claims a ph of 7.5 but out of the tap is currently 8.1

Mineral additions as required to create the desired water profile

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Agreed. Every mash I make lately is pH 5.2 Pilsners to Stouts.
Its all about getting a feel for it out of experience. I have also noticed the variation of pH in my tap water. I've never seen my tap water as high as pH8 though. In the end. I must say I use filtered water for all. Then add some very small additions of Calciums and Epsom salt. The variation in my filtered water has read between pH 5.2 to 6.2. So on brew day I may make a small adjustment to the Acidulated malt.
Or with a dark grain heavy mash a tiny bit of baking soda to raise the mash to pH 5.2.
Sparge with filtered water at pH6.

Actually I have gone to mixing the moderate powdered mineral additions through all the water used. I think that's just being fastidious but maybe not. :chug:

 

[PoN]

When you guys talk about efficiency do you mean from pre boil to what you end up in the bottle/keg or do you just mean mash efficiency?

Robobrew has 3.5L of deadspace and fermentor has 1-1.5L of deadspace so that takes about 17% off your total efficiency.

With my darker beers I am hitting 70% mash efficiency, but once i calculate what I end up with in the bottle i'ts more like 55% total efficiency.

In saying that I am still usually around 10 points of my target gravities.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Mash eff

 

[TheWiggman]

Fly sparging quickly will kill mash efficiency regardless of the system. The sparge water needs to spend some time in contact with the grains to carry the sugars with it, otherwise you will risk channeling and leave lots of sugars in the mash. Before venturing too far extend the sparge process out to 45 mins and see if the efficiency goes up. Do you check runoff gravity? If it's really low before your target volume, say <1.008, then you can be sure that's the issue.
Additionally, back off on the acids until you have a grasp on the [measured] pH. Salts, different story as long as you know the source water (as they will contribute to flavour but affect pH. Flavour you CAN measure).
As above no need for carapils as the wheat will perform the same task. The wheat however will lend a flavour to the beer, so go either but not both. 300g carapils in a recipe that size it about right.

 

[PoN]

If that's the case then I am going to need another vessel to drain my wort into. I'll then be able to leave the malt pipe in the kettle for the sparge.

So I may as well have spent my money on a 3V system rather than a robobrew.

Seems like a waste of money now.

If sparge water needs to stay in contact with the grain so much then why did these guys design a system like this where sparging takes 15 minutes at the most. Seems like a rort now.