Recipe Critique

[DarkFaerytale]

hey all, wouldn't mind hearing your opinions on this recipe, started out as the G&G Forbidden Fruit recipe but took on a life of it's own

23L
OG of around 1.080
about 65% efficiancy (20% wheat)

Wey Pilsner 3.5 K
Wey Weizen Dunkel 1.75 K
Wey Munich Dunkel 0.6 K
Wey Caraaroma 0.3 K
Wey Melanoidin 0.2 K
Wey Carafa special I 0.05 K

different sugers from indian/asian stores in the area (brown, rock, palm)
adding up to about 1K

hops i'm not to concerned about and was thinking styrian goldings to 20IBU

heaps of spices, have not worked out what rates i'm going to add them yet but i'v got:
(how much i'm thinking of adding is in brackets)

G+G orange peel (will also use some fresh peel along with this) (10g and half an orange)
corriander (15G)
cummin seed (3g)
cardimom or GOP (2g)
star aniseed (1)
there are some other spices i spotted (grains of paradise) but they were already pre-crushed (tryed pre crushed corriander befor in a wit and it sucked)

wyeast forbidden fruit, using the sludge off of the wit i'm doing at the moment

any ideas on if this can be improved or if it will come out bad would be great, especially the grain bill

cheers

-Phill

 

[warrenlw63]

Nah looks close to perfect Phil.

Not too much I'd change there. Going to be a mighty exciting beer. :beerbang:

Quick Edit: Just noticed the cardamom. I'd halve it.. That stuff can be lethal in excess.

Warren -

 

[bugwan]

I wholeheartedly agree with Warren on the cardamom call - I almost rendered a Wit undrinkable with about 4g in a 23L brew. Corriander can throw some pretty funky flavours too, some more reading might sort out ideal volumes on that though.

Sounds like a really exciting beer, great to see the variety that brewers are churning out... Good luck!

PS. What sort of mash regime are you looking at? A simple rest @ 66?

 

[warrenlw63]

Yeah, I reckon minimal spices are probably the way to go Bugwan. The yeast is probably going to be a big spice contributor in the first place.

Only use I can see for robust spice levels is if the beer's put away for quite a while before sampling. They'll all fade to a blend in good time anyway.

Only thing I can see wrong with that recipe is me not sneaking over and stealing a bottle. :lol:

Warren -

 

[DarkFaerytale]

excelent, changed the cardimom to 2grams, gonna read and re-read a few books befor i decide on end volume for the spices tho (won't be putting it down till next weekend)

yep just a single rest at 66 for an hour then sparge at 77-80

i'll save you a bottle once it's done warren and we will have to meet up some time

-Phill

 

[drsmurto]

Agree on the cardamom, but i would also be cautious with the star anise. If you plan on adding that to the boil you may end up with a dominant aniseed flavour. Maybe try 1 this time and then see, you cant take the flavour out

Cumin is an interesting one tho, goes well in indian, thai etc dishes but i would baulk at putting it in with beer (despite how well curry and beer go together!) altho 3g may be subtle enough.

Yet to make a spiced beer so am always interested in seeing what you crazy people come up with

Good luck DFT

Cheers
DrSmurto

 

[neonmeate]

i agree with all the others - half of all those spice amounts will still give what you want.

looks like an amazing beer! only i would be careful about precisely which sugars you use - you've got 1.35 kg that is a lot, especially if you're using sugars that also add flavour and colour - and especially the dark molassesy ones. be careful. the trick with beers like this is to not let any one element dominate.
also at 65% mash efficiency, 1.35kg sugars are making up quite a high %age of your fermentables. i think limit them to 1kg at the absolute max.

whole grains of paradise can be got from herbie's spices in rozelle (they also have a website), they're expensive but well worth it. they go really well in dark belgians (and also in a nice lamb tagine).

 

[bugwan]

.
.
. the trick with beers like this is to not let any one element dominate.
.
.
.

This is certainly the challenge... I love beers like this, every sip uncovers another level of complexity, more flavours and characteristics. Looking forward to hearing the reviews Phill.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

thanks for the tip on herbies ordered some GOP and allspice (i'v got some other spiced beers i want to try and play around with as well so won't need to use all of these at once) your right the GOP is very expencive but i don't think i'll get through it in a hurry, might replace the cardomum with it.

cut sugers down to 1kg and i'll see how the star anise goes with 1 pod if it's not enough i'll add more at secondary

i'v got 5G of cummin in the wit i'v got going at the moment and i think it might be to much so i'm err on the side of caution with this beer, i can always add more spice later into secondary (ala mosher or jamil methods) but i doubt it'll need it

-Phill

 

[ale_snail]

that recipe looks exciting..

i cant wait til i get to AG

and to think at first i thought making beers like CPA and Crownies and similar beers out of a kit was cool, now extract brewing is awesome cos you can totally control what you do. but i cant wait til i get to AG brewing and have even more control over my beer and get a better outcome =D

 

[Stuster]

Ale snail, I reckon you could get close to this recipe with an extract batch with steeped grains. You could just replace the pilsner malt with the lightest coloured extract you can find, and the wheat malt with some wheat malt extract (I think Morgan's has liquid wheat extract, but there might be more). Then just steep the Caraaroma, Melanoidin and Carafa. Add say 250g of Caramunich to replace the dark Munich and away you go. Might not be exactly the same, but close enough. :super:

 

[ale_snail]

Stuster can i order the same exact amounts off the net.. ie off Ross?

becuase my LHBS doesnt have grains.

i can get some light lme and some wheat lme no probs

otherwise it sounds a plan

also Stuster i dont think ill be going to AG for a few months yet

 

[Stuster]

I'm pretty sure Ross can do you any grain/extract bill up to your specifications, but I guess you'd better ask him directly just to make sure. I think Grain and Grape can do the same.

No rush for AG. Do some more extracts and move on when you can or you want to.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

it's been just over a week on the primary now. shot up to 23C for the first day or so but then sat comfortably on 20C and is still there and burping every now and then, i tasted the hydro reading last night, 1.014 (from 1.082) the star anise is the domminant flavour but is not over done so thanks to dr. smurto for the advise on cutting it back to one pod instead of 2, and thank you to everyone else as well, it's gonna be a nice beer in another month or so and is quite warming at 9%

i will rack sometime later this week and leave to condition in the garage at about 8C (room temp) for a couple more weeks then bottle. i'll probably throw in some dry yeast with the bulk prime just to make sure it primes the bottle

thanks all

-Phill

 

[tangent]

even 1 star anise may have been overkill in the long run but time will tell.
looks like a good malt bill though.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

you might be right, i remembered seeing a recipe for star anise stout or something like that that required 2 pods, must be a pretty potent brew...i think it was in extreme brewing. i'll have a look when i get home tonight