Really Need Some Help

[altstart]

:beer:
Poida
I did that myself some time ago. I have a harris reg about 10 years old. I stripped it cleaned it and then sanitised it with a no rinse sanitiser <Hy-San> and then reassembled it and fitted a non return valve. No more probs.
Altstart

 

[poida]

Thanks, I'll have another go at getting it apart and clean it out. I'll also check all the kegs parts as others have suggested and see how it goes. Fingers crossed.
Cheers
Peter

 

[poida]

Well its been a while since I started this thread, thought I'd post an update.

I've been really busy with work and other commitments for the last few months so I had to put the brewing on hold, but now I'm back into the swing of things and I still have this same problem as I did when I started this thread.

I'm really close to just giving up on the whole thing at this point because it has cost me a fortune in spoilt batches of beer and equipment.

After everyones suggestions I have done the following:

Replaced all the seals in both kegs with kits that I bought for Ross. I have cleaned every part of the kegs I could remove.

I replaced my beer and gas lines with quality stuff also from Ross.

I have replaced my regulator with a brand new one I bought on the weekend.

I thoroughly cleaned every part of my keg setup, disconnects, beer tap etc.

Now I had a beer ready to be kegged (Fresh Wort Lager) and it was tasting great from the fermentor. I kegged it on saturday, burped it and left it in the fridge to chill. Last night I force carbed it using the rocking method, gave it an hour to settle and then let the gas out through the relief valve, gassed to serving pressure and poured a very foamy glass to test it out. Well it tasted really good and I thought my troubles were finally over.

I came home tonight and thought I'd have a nice glass of homebrew and guess what, that weird off-flavour is back!!!!! What the hell could this possibly be???

I'm now back to my original theory that there is something up with the Co2 I have and it took it a day to really get worked in and spoil it.

Anyway, thanks for reading this far. If anyone can offer a suggestion I'd appreciate it.

 

[Thommo]

Only thing I can think of; are you racking to the keg and making sure you don't get any oxygen in the beer? Not sure of your brewing experience, so these questions aren't meant to offend. Could the off taste be oxidation?

 

[poida]

Only thing I can think of; are you racking to the keg and making sure you don't get any oxygen in the beer? Not sure of your brewing experience, so these questions aren't meant to offend. Could the off taste be oxidation?

No offence taken mate, I fill the kegs slowly using a tube obviously to avoid oxidising the beer. Before I even start filling the keg I put some c02 in there first so that there are still some vapours in there during the filling process. I just do this so as to have as little chance of oxidising it as posible.

 

[Keifer]

Just say for the moment that your beers fine, which it probably is if its fine in the bottle. There arn't too many components in keg setup too investigate, looks like you've done most of em.

I would check the gas (borrow someone else's gas bottle for a couple of days?) as you mentioned and also your tap, pull it apart and clean it.

You can also borrow a keg off someone that has good beer pouring from em, i doubt it's the keg since you've done the seals and pulled it apart fully.

Can you describe in more detail the weird off flavour ? syrupy? stale? extremely dry beer? medicine? grassy?

Don't give up! you'll find out what it is.

 

[tangent]

did you completely pull the pickup tube out and everything or just replace the rubbers?

 

[poida]

Hi guys,

Yeah I'm really thinking its the gas at the moment. I was thinking of doing a test just using water. I'll fill a keg with only water and leave it for a few days and taste it. If all is well then I'll carbonate the water with the gas and give it another day or so and see if it has this off flavour. Do you think that will work?

Yeah I pulled the dip tube out and replaced the rubber seal on that and made sure it was clean. I also pulled the posts apart and cleaned them too so I'm reasonably confident its not the kegs now especially when it happens to both of them since they were new. I did pull the tap apart and clean it to.

It really hard to describe the flavour, I guess stale would cover it. When I kegged this batch the other day I tasted it and could really taste the hoppy flavour but now its like the hops are totally overpowered by this off flavour.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Hehe it's one of those mykegonlegs light green coloured bottles. I bought it when I bought the keg system from the HB shop.

Poida,
I'll assume that you actually inspected your pickup tube and you don't have ancient hop matter or a bug in there adding flavour to your beer enroute to the glass! When you've carbonated your beer, does it quickly go flat after a day or two without re-gassing - ie, you don't have a leaky pressure relief valve or wanky lid that's creating a micro sized airgap / slow leak? Have you pulled the tap apart, cleaned it out and sanitised before re-use?

Is the light green coloured bottle all CO2, or pubmix / nitrogen?

Whatever it is, and I'm assuming that it's happening in all kegs, not just one, then you need to consider what's common and go through a process of elimination. Without being rude, are you sure you have your brewday procedure and hygiene protocols all ok? Are you using fresh ingredients? Do you check the smell and taste of your yeast starters to ensure you haven't got stressed / mutated / autolysed yeast?
Are your grains fresh? Do you have mouldy hops? Some off flavours take time to manifest themselves and you might be blaming the kegs for something that started several days ago and only appears on your flavour / taste threshold once the beer's in the keg...

Do you rinse your kegs out before you rack beer into them? Are you using a cleaner that's leaving microscopic pits in the surface of the keg interior - eg strong bleach left to soak in kegs overnight or longer is a no-no...And while were at it, are the insides of the kegs clear of scars, pitting, marks, rust etc?

If it were me, I'd check everything that comes into contact with the wort after the boil and see if the HBS will swap your gas bottle for another one - it's not a big deal and they should be just as keen to help a customer as you are to solve your problem.

Cheers,
TL

 

[pint of lager]

Yeah I'm really thinking its the gas at the moment. I was thinking of doing a test just using water. I'll fill a keg with only water and leave it for a few days and taste it. If all is well then I'll carbonate the water with the gas and give it another day or so and see if it has this off flavour. Do you think that will work?

Make sure, if you follow this path, you understand what difference dissolved carbon dioxide has to water. It turns the water into soda water and some of the dissolved carbon dioxide reacts and forms carbonic acid, which is sour.

This is one of my favourite suggestions to new keggers, try kegging plain water, carbonating it then tasting it. It really shows what part the bubbles have in finished beer flavour profile.

Good luck with your hunt for the culprit of the off flavour.

 

[warrenlw63]

Poida

If you really suspect it's the gas try priming your keg with sugar. When it's ready after about 2 weeks just tap it and pour the first pint or two under aspiration of the sugar priming without the CO2 connected. If your flavours are clean then obviously it's the gas or reg. If not back to the drawing board.

Warren -

 

[AndrewQLD]

Your beer tap and stem is also a good place for off flavours to develop. I had some trouble a few years back with a bitter back of the tongue after taste that developed after kegging and it turned out my tap was the culprit. They can harbour a black build up of stale beer that can cause flavour problems. Beer line and beer tap CLEANING and sanitation is not the easiest thing to keep on top of, and Pubs and Clubs spend a lot of time trying to keep their lines ect. clean, sadly not all of them are successful.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[poida]

Hi Guys, thanks for all the suggestions.

I can confidently say that I've cleaned everything that can be taken apart in the kegs and the tap. Anything that come into contact with the beer I cleaned as thoroughly as possible using some of that neo pink stuff and I make sure it is very well rinsed with fresh water afterwards. I don't think its a sanitation issue.

So like I mentioned I tried putting some fresh water in the keg and letting it sit a few days. I then tasted it and it was perfectly fine. So I gassed it up using the same method I would with beer and after another 2 days I degassed to serving pressure and tried it out and still there was no off flavour, just tasted like normal soda water. So there goes my gas theory.

So I guess now I really need to start looking at my procedures instead of the equipement. I never had any trouble when I used to bottle but there must be something I'm doing wrong.

I'm going to buy something cheap, like a can of coopers and some BE2 and ferment that with a decent yeast. I'll do some reading and make sure I'm following a good procedure. Wish me luck

 

[Trough Lolly]

Poida - are you using tank or town water?

TL

 

[Thommo]

I'm assuming you didn't rack the water to the keg, just poured it in since there was no need to worry about oxidisation. Perhaps the problem lies in the racking procedure after all.

What steps do you use towards steralising/cleaning your racking tube.

I'd give it a real decent soak (24hrs) in napisan, squirt some hot water through for about ten minutes, rinse with cold, steralise with a no rinse thoroughly, and use that to rack your cheap kit and kilo brew into the primary.

All I can think of at the moment.

HTH,
Thommo.

 

[Wortgames]

It sounds like you could be picking up either oxygen or a bug during the transfer from the fermenter to the keg.

Culprits to check obviously are the fermenter spigot (I hate them, don't trust them, don't use them - too difficult to clean and always end up pointing north) and your hose, as well as the obvious purging of the keg.

If you're sure you've got the keg side of it completely sanitary, try getting a brand new fermenter (and spigot, if you must). It never hurts to have a spare anyway. When transferring (with a NEW and fully sanitised hose), fill the keg with no-rinse sanitiser first then push it out with CO2 to ensure you've got nothing but CO2 in the keg. Transfer into the liquid spigot while venting the safety valve to allow the keg to fill.

It's a bit extreme but a clean result would indicate that your fermenter, spigot, hose or transfer procedure were to blame. A bad result would suggest that you still haven't got your kegs clean or there is something weird going on with the gas that doesn't show up in water.


edit: How confident are you about your disconnects? The gas hose even?

Remember that anything plastic can potentially become permanenty tainted - it is simply too soft a material to be entirely sanitary.

If in doubt, chuck it out.