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Re-pitching Onto Wyeast

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SJW

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I am about do do yet another AG Pilsner and am going to try using Wyeast. As I am trying to get the best value for my money, would it be best to repitch a second brew onto the yeast cake from the primary fermentation or the Cold Conditioned yeast cake? My thinking was telling me that the slurry from the secondary would have more viable yeast available than from the primary. But I dont know, so what are your thoughts. I think this would be a great time to swipe a little to keep in a bottle for a starter for the future.


STEPHEN
 

Ross

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I beleive the primary yeast cake is the better - if it's nice & clean use it straight off, or otherwise wash it first....
 

SJW

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If whats nice & clean? and wash what? Sorry about my lack of understanding Ross.
 

Gout

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clean i gather, is with little trub, (hops and other)

there is ways to remove this crap out via placing the yeast cake(some of) in watter and stiring it. the crap falls out. I think if you look on Wyeast home page, white labs or s search it will explain.

Wash, can be a acid wash, where you place the yeast in a ~2ph acid solution the volume of the yeast and the acid kills bugs(most - not all) and kills little yeast.

hope that give a bit more info to go one. How to brew (onlin/text) i think talks about it.

OR smack the pack and then build up and split into 5 stubies. then build one up for each brew. Someone also made a thread on this - try Wyeast starter in the search

cheers
 

Ross

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SJW,

Gout pretty well covered it there...hope all's clear?
 

sosman

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SJW said:
I am about do do yet another AG Pilsner and am going to try using Wyeast. As I am trying to get the best value for my money, would it be best to repitch a second brew onto the yeast cake from the primary fermentation or the Cold Conditioned yeast cake? My thinking was telling me that the slurry from the secondary would have more viable yeast available than from the primary. But I dont know, so what are your thoughts. I think this would be a great time to swipe a little to keep in a bottle for a starter for the future.
[post="66494"][/post]​
As well as yeast cake, you can harvest yeast from the krausen before it falls (according to Dave Lodgson this is one of the better ways from a yeast health perspective). I know one guy who just takes a cup of wort from the active fermentation and builds that up as a starter.
 

wee stu

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I reused a wyeast 1728 cake today. Racked the beer, a relatively lowly hopped 80/-. I Collected some trub using a steralised cup (boiled for 10 minutes) and decanted into a similarly treated mason jar.

Pitched this into a wee heavy around 4pm today, now less than six hours later, there are signs of healthy activity.

Shame about the CSR golden syrup, but :D
 

Murray

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sosman said:
SJW said:
I am about do do yet another AG Pilsner and am going to try using Wyeast. As I am trying to get the best value for my money, would it be best to repitch a second brew onto the yeast cake from the primary fermentation or the Cold Conditioned yeast cake? My thinking was telling me that the slurry from the secondary would have more viable yeast available than from the primary. But I dont know, so what are your thoughts. I think this would be a great time to swipe a little to keep in a bottle for a starter for the future.
[post="66494"][/post]​
As well as yeast cake, you can harvest yeast from the krausen before it falls (according to Dave Lodgson this is one of the better ways from a yeast health perspective). I know one guy who just takes a cup of wort from the active fermentation and builds that up as a starter.
[post="66565"][/post]​

I harvest from the krausen sometimes with good results, but sanitisation needs to be top notch.
 

Trough Lolly

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SJW said:
I am about do do yet another AG Pilsner and am going to try using Wyeast. As I am trying to get the best value for my money, would it be best to repitch a second brew onto the yeast cake from the primary fermentation or the Cold Conditioned yeast cake? My thinking was telling me that the slurry from the secondary would have more viable yeast available than from the primary. But I dont know, so what are your thoughts. I think this would be a great time to swipe a little to keep in a bottle for a starter for the future.


STEPHEN
[post="66494"][/post]​
Hi Stephen,
I also use the primary yeast/protein/trub cake - and I plan my brews so that I always reuse the yeast cake with either the same beer or one that won't be adversely affected by the existing composition of the yeast cake.

For example, I made an ESB, racked it to secondary and put a porter straight on top of the Wyeast 1028 yeast cake and it was bubbling within 30 minutes. I wouldn't do that the other way around unless I liked my ESB pretty dark!

I have also decanted part of the primary from lager yeast cakes (I have about 1.5L of Bohemian Pilsener lager yeast slurry in the fridge right now that I'll soon use on a Bock). As long as you pay close attention to sanitation and cleanliness then you should be fine. Chillers article on yeast handling is a good one to recap too...

Cheers,
TL
 

warrenlw63

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sosman said:
I know one guy who just takes a cup of wort from the active fermentation and builds that up as a starter.
[post="66565"][/post]​
I take it this guy really trusts his fermenter tap? :unsure:

Warren -
 

SJW

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Thanks guys all that sounds tops. One more question:
I think i will make up a starter and split it 3 or 4 ways, but what temp do I ferment the starter out at? It is the 2278 Czech Pils Wyeast. The pack says between 21 & 24 deg C to kick it off but should i ferment the starter at Lager temps?
Also the nstruction say to pitch the yeast at 21 - 24 deg C then wait for signs of fermentation then reduce to Lager fermt. temp. I would of thought that by the time fermentation starts then the fermenter goes in the fridge by the time it gets down to 9 or 10 deg C that it would be finished fermenting?

STEPHEN
 

Ross

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SJW said:
Thanks guys all that sounds tops. One more question:
I think i will make up a starter and split it 3 or 4 ways, but what temp do I ferment the starter out at? It is the 2278 Czech Pils Wyeast. The pack says between 21 & 24 deg C to kick it off but should i ferment the starter at Lager temps?
Also the nstruction say to pitch the yeast at 21 - 24 deg C then wait for signs of fermentation then reduce to Lager fermt. temp. I would of thought that by the time fermentation starts then the fermenter goes in the fridge by the time it gets down to 9 or 10 deg C that it would be finished fermenting?

STEPHEN
[post="66642"][/post]​
SJW,

Build your starter up at room temp - just make sure it's at a similar temp to your brew when you pitch it, to prevent thermal shock. You can pitch cold which is best with quite a large starter, or you can pitch warm & then put in fridge either straight away or as ferment starts - If your starters on the small side & you're not aireating the wort I'd pitch warm & chill once ferment starts - but if oyu've got a good large healthy starter going, pitch warm & put in fridge straight away - There are differing opinions on which way to go, but all work quite satisfactorily....
 

SJW

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Sorry to labour this point, but what size is a large and small starter? I would of thought 1/4 or about 2 inches of slurry, excluding the clear liquid on top, in the bottom of a stubby would be a good size?
 

Ross

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SJW said:
Sorry to labour this point, but what size is a large and small starter? I would of thought 1/4 or about 2 inches of slurry, excluding the clear liquid on top, in the bottom of a stubby would be a good size?
[post="66650"][/post]​
Starter made from 2 to 3L of wort would be considered a good sized starter, I would say a small one would be straight from the pack or stepped upto 1L...
 

SJW

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3 litres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3 litres in a 25 litre batch seems heaps. With this much starter I would imagine that you would need to consider the colour and tates profile of the malt used in the starter.
For a delicate little Pilsner I would of thought that by dumping 3 litres of yeast stater in made from a amber malt would effect the colour not to mention alter your OG.
 

Trough Lolly

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I always pitch more yeast with Lagers than Ales - 2 to 3 litres is about right and yes, if you make your starter with Amber DME, don't expect a pale koelsch! Horses for courses....

TL
 

Ross

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SJW said:
3 litres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3 litres in a 25 litre batch seems heaps. With this much starter I would imagine that you would need to consider the colour and tates profile of the malt used in the starter.
For a delicate little Pilsner I would of thought that by dumping 3 litres of yeast stater in made from a amber malt would effect the colour not to mention alter your OG.
[post="66670"][/post]​
SJW,

Let the starter ferment out, then pour the liquid off the yeast which will have settled at the bottom & just pitch the yeast, this way your starter will have little effect on your profile...
 

Gough

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G'day SJ,

I brew quite a few lagers and use that particular yeast a lot. For a 1050-1055 OG Pilsner I use a 2 litre starter made with light DME. If you are worried about it then make your 2-3 litre starter, let it ferment right out, chill down to pitching temp or just below and decant the liquid off before pitching. Adding some of your wort to the decanted slurry for an hour or two is also a good idea.

In general IMO pitching cooled slurry to cooled wort at or just below ferm temp is the best idea. I've done this most times since reading Noonan's 'New Brewing Lager Beer'. However the Helles I brewed 3 weeks or so ago, now lagering, was pitched at 18 degrees and dropped to 10 in the fridge overnight because my starter wasn't fully fermented out by the time I wanted to use it. My temp was right by the time there were any signs of ferm and it tasted fine after its diacetyl rest. I've had good results using both methods of pitching, so long as the pitching temp has been under 20 and I've had access to a fridge to drop the overal temp as quickly as possible.

Good luck with it all,

Shawn.
 

SJW

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Thanks guys. I think I will combine both your ideas (Ross & Shawn). ie, I will let the starter ferment out (or just use a 375ml stubbie from the fridge), then pour off the clear liquid over the yeast, (like Ross said), then on brew day use some first runnings from the mash to add to the starter to fire it up again prior to pitching, (like Shawn said) But i dont think that 2 hours would be enough time to get the starter to a high Krusen state?
 

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