Re-Hydrate v Not..

[soundawake]

(Also aware that a common marketing ploy is to get consumers engaged and invested with their product by spending more time with it. Which is what we do with rehydration. Bit like Coopers telling us to roll a stubby of across the bar before drinking it to mix up the yeast. But that's just me and my suspicions of corporate agendas)

Funny you mention.. At the Coopers 150th birthday bash here in Adelaide, got a chance to have a beer and chat with Dr Tim Cooper. I preferred to 'turn' my Coopers beers, and my friend did not. We asked Dr Tim, 'Do YOU turn and rotate your beers?' He replied that the whole turning/rolling your bottle thing was completely out of the marketing dept, and he didn't bother as there was no difference in taste. I actually think there IS a difference in taste, then again I'm not a doctor.. but there you go. Dr Tim thinks its a load of shit.

Was great chatting with him, he was a very honest and regular guy - no bullshit with him.

Here is a photo to prove I had a beer with him... can you see the guy photobombing in the background? Classic!!

 

[Bizier]

"Ohh, I'm not a doctor"

 

[Pickaxe]

Plastic cups. Never happened. Must be 'shopped.

 

[Bizier]

http://www.bookdepository.com/Brewing-Yeast-Fermentation-Christopher-Boulton/9781405152686

 

[Pickaxe]

Rolling bottles does smack of marketing. It's a nice bit of theatre at the bar, heard of breweries giving out rolling mats, with a measure in them for rolling purposes, but it doesn't mean much. When coopets is kegged, it depends on the level of the Keg, whether it was first pour, middle or last which dictates yeast levels. Does it taste different? Yes, depending on whether its mud or settled clear, but that could be strictly texture, but mud tasted different to clear beer, that's undeniable.

 

[dent]

I dunno about the survival of the fittest concept giving you better yeast.

Seems to me a bit like sending your olympic team to work in the gulags for six months before the competition, and then saying the ones that died were shit athletes anyhow - the survivors will be champions.

 

[Camo6]

DucatiboyStu nine pages ago:





DucatiboyStu now:





Rehydrating yeast is better for over all yeast numbers. Pitching dry yeast is better for lower infection risk. Hooray! Everyone wins.

 

[jyo]

I've locked the thread, guys.

 

[Camo6]

But we're just getting to the heart of the matter!

 

[Bizier]

I dunno about the survival of the fittest concept giving you better yeast.

Seems to me a bit like sending your olympic team to work in the gulags for six months before the competition, and then saying the ones that died were shit athletes anyhow - the survivors will be champions.

I would hypothesise that surviving cells would have a lower average vitality than properly rehydrated cells given the same conditions, but this is something difficult to measure.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

DucatiboyStu nine pages ago:
troll1.jpg




DucatiboyStu now:
troll2.jpg




.

Yawn

 

[sp0rk]

Don't lock it, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

 

[slash22000]

Still, for a troll thread, at least people learned something. Facts were presented, and ... well, okay, they were pretty much totally ignored ... and then ... well ... actually, yeah, nothing productive came of this thread. Everybody came into the thread thinking they knew everything, and they left the thread thinking they knew everything, evidence to the contrary be damned. -_-

 

[sp0rk]

I for one enjoyed it and won't be changing my dry sprinkling practices
Just to spite you...

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I for one enjoyed it and won't be changing my dry sprinkling practices
Just to spite my beer.......

FIFY

 

[treefiddy]

Ok.

We all underpitch to the extent that the yeast we pitch in always insufficient on its own to ferment the wort to completion.

What we rely on is the oxygen in the initial wort to help the yeast to reproduce. That's why we aerate or oxygenate the wort. Importantly, the pitched yeast consume the oxygen to synthesise lipids (chemical group = oils, fats, waxes) which are used to make cell walls for daughter cells.

There is a limit to this. Once all the free oxygen is consumed the yeast numbers are up but they then have difficulty in reproducing (making building blocks for new cell walls).

1. If you rehydrate your pitching yeast and aerate normally the yeast will consume the available oxygen and multiply to achieve the numbers needed to ferment out your beer to completion.

2. If you direct pitch the yeast, half die (or thereabouts but just sayin). The remaining yeast will also consume the oxygen in the wort to multiply. But they also have at hand the ready-made biomolecules including lipids and other tasty morsels from their dead brethren to increase their numbers. The number of cells these lipids can provide I reckon to be roughly the same as the number of cells that died at pitching (sort of biochemical equilibrium).

All ends up pretty much at the same place really. Except you've executed all those inferior yeast cells that haven't got the balls to do a good job at fermenting beer anyway.

All yeast are not created equal.

In addition, Danstar yeast can reproduce approximately 3 times without the need for oxygen.
Just adding this to the mix.

http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/aeration-and-starter-versus-wort

Lallemand packs the maximum amount of lipids into the cell wall that is possible during the aerobic production of the yeast at the factory. When you inoculate this yeast into a starter or into the mash, the yeast can double about three time before it runs out of lipids and the growth will stop. - Dr Clayton Cone

If I'm "preaching" the benefits of rehydrating then so is every single microbiologist who has ever done any non-biased scientific research into this topic. We'll have to inform their colleagues so they can immediately be stripped of their qualifications and expelled onto the street. -_-

With all due respect, Slash, if you are not a scientist, please don't speak on their behalf.

 

[slash22000]

With all due respect, Slash, if you are not a scientist, please don't speak on their behalf.

Well shit, SOMEBODY has to in this clusterfuck of a thread. When this all started, I thought maybe linking to some genuine scientific opinions and evidence might teach somebody something, same way I learned it when I started looking into the benefits of rehydration. I was young and innocent, back in the days of the beginning of this thread. Now I have been violated repeatedly and I'm a bitter old hooker working quickie hand jobs on street corners for yeast slants. Where did the dream go? It died on that street corner, coated in something white and sticky ... probably yeast.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Still, for a troll thread, at least people learned something.

Well it wasnt when it started.....

 

[GalBrew]

I'm a scientist....yay!!

 

[sp0rk]

FIFY

Thank you for fixing something you had no reason to fix
It's my beer, I'll do whatever I want with it