Raw Wheat

[QldKev]

I used Raw Wheat in a beer for my first time. I missed my mash efficiency by a lot. I had dialed up 85% and only hit 74.8% eff. I found my system normally never varies by much, and to be over 10% out I'm thinking WTF!

In Beersmith I copied Flaked Wheat
Potential 1.035,
Yield 77%,
Moisture 9.0%,
Protein 16%.

Recipe is pretty simple
2.70 kg BB Galaxy
1.30kg Raw Wheat (organic crap from a health food shop, I noticed it was a lot smaller than normal malted wheat)
0.10kg Acidulated

Mash schedule was
35c / 10min
55c / 5min
62c / 35min
72c / 25min
77c / 5min

Is there something special about Raw Wheat I don't know about? Do you need to boil it or do a cereal mash?

 

[Beersuit]

As far as I know Kev raw wheat needs to be cerial mashed first to help gelatinize it making it readily available for the enzymes.
Torrified wheat is what I go for when ever raw wheat is asked for. It's already gelatinized and fail safe.

 

[Not For Horses]

Flaked wheat has been heated with steam as part of the process and the starches have been (partly) gelatinised.
Raw wheat hasn't had the same heat treatment and the starches aren't as accessible to the enzymes in the mash and thus not as easily converted to sugars.
Plug in 60% yield for raw wheat and recheck your numbers.

 

[Bribie G]

You could mill it separately, then boil it to a mush and when it gets down to around 75 degrees hit it with a kilo of your base malt. I've used flour in some UK recipes - the cake and biscuit flour which is lower protein. Had the nearest thing to set mash I've ever had with BIAB.

 

[hoppy2B]

For standard wheat you need to grind it up really fine in order to gelatinize it fully.

 

[QldKev]

Thanks for the ideas, I tried setting the yield to 60% and got 79.4% eff, getting closer but still of my 85%.

Looks like I should have treated it as per rice. Next time I will boil it first.

Does Torrified wheat give you the same flavor and haze as raw wheat?

 

[Dan Pratt]

my understanding QldKev is that you need enough ale or pils malt cmbined with raw wheat to aid enough enzymes to break down the starch within the raw wheat when its put straight into the mash.

I recently made a Belgian Wit and went with 65% raw wheat and only 25% pils ( +10% oats ) and my efficiency dropped 10% also and that was with my usual 90min rest at 63c

I have adjusted my recipe back to 50RW / 40Pils / 10oats again like it was before I went for a 65% raw wheat after discovering from google somewhere that the pils malt provides the enzymes to break down the raw wheat ( please correct me if Im wrong )

In saying that the %pils is higher than the raw wheat % so all I can suggest is to increase the 62c rest time from 45 min to 75 or 90 to allow for the enzymes to work into the raw wheat.

 

[QldKev]

my understanding QldKev is that you need enough ale or pils malt cmbined with raw wheat to aid enough enzymes to break down the starch within the raw wheat when its put straight into the mash.

I recently made a Belgian Wit and went with 65% raw wheat and only 25% pils ( +10% oats ) and my efficiency dropped 10% also and that was with my usual 90min rest at 63c

I have adjusted my recipe back to 50RW / 40Pils / 10oats again like it was before I went for a 65% raw wheat after discovering from google somewhere that the pils malt provides the enzymes to break down the raw wheat ( please correct me if Im wrong )

In saying that the %pils is higher than the raw wheat % so all I can suggest is to increase the 62c rest time from 45 min to 75 or 90 to allow for the enzymes to work into the raw wheat.

The limited enzymes is why I went for the Galaxy malt, it's has about the highest level of diastatic power of malts I know. I was going to set the controller to do a 45c at 62 for the style but I forget to change it :unsure:. I think if it works out to be a good beer next time I'll try torrified wheat.

Now to work out which yeast will suit the beer.

 

[HBHB]

If i'm brewing with Raw Wheat, it'll often include oats as well so I usually do a step mash and allow for a rest at 59 Deg for 20 minutes for gelatinisation.

Rolled, flaked, torrified have all been gelatinised to varying (sufficient) degrees.

Kev, I don't think torrified wheat does end up quite as cloudy, but there's not much in it. Thus, I usually add a bit of flour late in the boil &/or use some flaked oats in the grain bill as well, especially for doing Belgian Wit's.

Flavour wise, much of a muchness.

The thing with using torrified and flaked is my mash efficiencies were crap until I worked out how fine they needed to be to get the most out of them, so they mostly get milled pretty fine. pretty much the same with raw wheat, it does help to even double mill them to bust them up for gelatinisation.

Certainly, using torrified wheat, milled nice and fine or flaked wheat is easier in a single step infusion mash.

Martin

 

[Howlingdog]

I've always done either a decoction or turbid mash if using raw wheat similar ot what Belgian do.

http://byo.com/component/k2/item/261-break-the-rules-like-a-belgian-advance-brewing

 

[Howlingdog]

Oops! meant this article

http://byo.com/component/k2/item/1534-turbid-mashing