Rainwater For Lagers

[NeilArge]

HYN for 2009 to you all!

Just a quick question: would you adjust (e.g. add gypsum) your rainwater in an AG pilsener/lager or isn't it worth it? I brew with all rainwater but would like to get my German lagers a little drier and truer to type and wonder if I need to look at my water. I haven't had the chemical composition of my rainwater tested.

Cheers

ToG

 

[slacka]

I probably should put my flame proof suite on as I am a rather inexperienced brewer.

I was recently reading how to brew by John Palmer and noticed that a Czech Pilsner was used as a water example saying how it is very low in minerals thus rain water would be pretty close.
link

Having said that, I thought that the mash temperature dictated how "dry" your beer was going to turn out.
link

 

[SJW]

I probably should put my flame proof suite on as I am a rather inexperienced brewer.

I was recently reading how to brew by John Palmer and noticed that a Czech Pilsner was used as a water example saying how it is very low in minerals thus rain water would be pretty close.
link

Having said that, I thought that the mash temperature dictated how "dry" your beer was going to turn out.
link

I must agree. But I will say we have great, soft water in Newcastle so when I have used rain water I could not tell any diff. And FWIW I would suspect that any rain water that falls around our city areas would be hardley suitable for drinking, without brewing with it. (flame suit)
Theres a lot to be said for that clean country air.

Steve

 

[Bribie G]

Ah that bracing Armidale water!! Shouldn't have any pollution problems there apart from maybe a bit of hot air drifting in from the UNE campus Philosophy department I'm using tank water and seriously looking at water composition myself as there'll be lager mini comps coming up during the year.
I understand from Palmer that in centuries past at Pilsen they had to do an 'acid rest' at the begining of the mash due to the extremely soft water, but that is no longer necessary as they add some brewing salts to get the correct pH in the mash tun.

Personally I'm going to have a dollar each way and put in maybe just a quarter of a teaspoon of each water salt into the brew. I currently have Gypsum, chalk, epsom salts, calcium chloride and bicarb. Might give the bicarb a miss here.

 

[SJW]

I know that Ross uses rain water, and he adds minerals and salts to his water. Check with him.

 

[himzol]

If your going to add salts to your water then measure them out properly.

taking into consideration the following: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html

basically look at how each salt effects the mash, and adjust your water accordingly. specially the ratio of chlorides to sulphates.

The other thing to look at is your residual alcalinity (sp) .

Himzo.

 

[NeilArge]

Ah that bracing Armidale water!! Shouldn't have any pollution problems there apart from maybe a bit of hot air drifting in from the UNE campus Philosophy department

Sounds like the voice of experience there! The rainwater here is very good, esp. since the amount of winter woodfire smoke has lessened over recent years - pretty bad before then. I take the point that mash temps. have a big impact on the relative dryness of the beer but am also aware that chalk and gypsum and other goodies contribute to the drinkability of lagers. I'm inclined to leave well enough alone rather than an undertake a degree in chemistry but wondered what others thought and did. I have spoken to Ross about this and I think he doesn't use salts of any sort. Ross?

Cheers

ToG

 

[therook]

HYN for 2009 to you all!

Just a quick question: would you adjust (e.g. add gypsum) your rainwater in an AG pilsener/lager or isn't it worth it? I brew with all rainwater but would like to get my German lagers a little drier and truer to type and wonder if I need to look at my water. I haven't had the chemical composition of my rainwater tested.

Cheers

ToG

I asked this exact question to Wess Smith and he told me not to add anything to rainwater for a Pilsner/lager. keep in mind i have a Zinculume roof and poly tanks

Rook

 

[NeilArge]

I asked this exact question to Wess Smith and he told me not to add anything to rainwater for a Pilsner/lager. keep in mind i have a Zinculume roof and poly tanks

Rook

Thanks Rook - Exactly what I was after.

Cheers all!

ToG

 

[warra48]

I don't brew many lagers, but when I do, I use 80% rain water, topped up with 20% of our local water.

I figure that gives me enough chemicals in the water to get me by.

 

[fraser_john]

I use rainwater all the time and my last APA at a comp came back as lacking malt balance, I was not adjusting the profile.

As mentioned in the "I dont like Amarillo thread", my last JSGA clone I used Palmers spreadsheet and adjusted the water for a malty profile and the difference is like chalk and cheese!

Palmers spreadsheet gave me exactly what I wanted to adjust my rainwater for the best residual alkalinity and malt profile for the beer colour I was brewing. Have to recommend it when brewing with rainwater!

I do need to place an order for extra salts from Ross though before my open brew day!

 

[therook]

I use rainwater all the time and my last APA at a comp came back as lacking malt balance, I was not adjusting the profile.

As mentioned in the "I dont like Amarillo thread", my last JSGA clone I used Palmers spreadsheet and adjusted the water for a malty profile and the difference is like chalk and cheese!

Palmers spreadsheet gave me exactly what I wanted to adjust my rainwater for the best residual alkalinity and malt profile for the beer colour I was brewing. Have to recommend it when brewing with rainwater!

I do need to place an order for extra salts from Ross though before my open brew day!

Hey John, when you used Palmers spreadsheet did you assume 0 for all the readings to start with or did you have your tank water analysed?

Rook

 

[fraser_john]

Hey John, when you used Palmers spreadsheet did you assume 0 for all the readings to start with or did you have your tank water analysed?

Rook

I had alcoa analyse my rainwater (results posted on one of the water adjustment threads somewhere), came back with very very minor levels of salts/chems as the installers had half filled the tank with tap water to stop it blowing away whilst we waited for rain. Based on that, I just left them at zero and adjusted out from that.

All I can say Mark is that it did make a big difference to rainwater with no treatment compared to rainwater treated according to the spreadsheet!

 

[NeilArge]

I use rainwater all the time and my last APA at a comp came back as lacking malt balance, I was not adjusting the profile.

As mentioned in the "I dont like Amarillo thread", my last JSGA clone I used Palmers spreadsheet and adjusted the water for a malty profile and the difference is like chalk and cheese!

Palmers spreadsheet gave me exactly what I wanted to adjust my rainwater for the best residual alkalinity and malt profile for the beer colour I was brewing. Have to recommend it when brewing with rainwater!

I do need to place an order for extra salts from Ross though before my open brew day!

Thanks FJ - I'll have a look at Palmer's spreadsheet and work accordingly. You've convinced me!

ToG

 

[fraser_john]

Thanks FJ - I'll have a look at Palmer's spreadsheet and work accordingly. You've convinced me!

ToG

The spreadsheet is a bit of a pain to get accustomed to, there are instructions, so work through it carefully. Its worth it.

If you need help, PM me

John.

 

[Bribie G]

I've been trying to make sense of Palmer's table chapter 15.4 , not spreadsheet.... what page of the electronic version is the spreadsheet on, or do you have to download it separately?

 

[NeilArge]

The spreadsheet is a bit of a pain to get accustomed to, there are instructions, so work through it carefully. Its worth it.

If you need help, PM me

John.

Thanks John - I'll bear that in mind.

Neil