Racking And Gelatine

[Neill]

So say you rack something onto some gelatine (using appropriate techniques) and you leave behind a nice yeast cake of US-05 or whatever. The Gelatine then causes the yeast and whatnot to drop out of suspension in the secondary right? Now you go and bottle that nice clean beer with very little yeast in suspension, if any. Will your bottles still carbonate properly if there's virtually no yeast in suspension? Or does it not work that way?

Experiences and thoughts!

 

[Fourstar]

Yes, Carbonation is fine, there is always enough yeast around to clean up any sugars you add and allow for carbonation.. it may just take a little longer, just ensure you keep your bottles warm (20deg-ish)

 

[Effect]

+1

No problems at all with carbing after gelatine.

 

[hazard]

+2

My last batch had gelatine added to secondary, then after a few days crash chilled to 5 deg and left it there for a week.

Bottles took about 2 weeks to carb u fully, and beer is wonderfully clear.

 

[Neill]

Beautiful, thanks guys. Must be more yeast in suspension than i thought, even with gelatining. I thought it'd pretty much all be gone.

 

[Bribie G]

OK I just can't resist posting this pic one more time:
This is a bottle on bottling day itself, after a gelatine fine and polyclar, in secondary. And yes it did carb up nicely but took 3 weeks. Well worth the wait however :icon_cheers: As I posted on another thread if you 'bottle clear' and have used a sticky yeast like US-05 or Nottingham then you can even bottle part of the brew into Corona etc bottles and swig them from the bottle without rousing much sediment at all.

 

[chappo1970]

OK I just can't resist posting this pic one more time:
This is a bottle on bottling day itself, after a gelatine fine and polyclar, in secondary. And yes it did carb up nicely but took 3 weeks. Well worth the wait however :icon_cheers: As I posted on another thread if you 'bottle clear' and have used a sticky yeast like US-05 or Nottingham then you can even bottle part of the brew into Corona etc bottles and swig them from the bottle without rousing much sediment at all.

View attachment 26691

Never get sick of Bribies Goony shoot. Been missing in the threads as of late.

BribieG relevant question for once. Why do you polyclar and fine? I seem to get great results from just fining (gelatine) and CCing. I really haven't found the need to polyclar again on top of that. Agree your beers are very bright and present well but I seriously think I would be lucky to get a TallyHo paper between the brightness of your beers and mine? Not having a shot at ya BTW just curious is all?

 

[buttersd70]

Never get sick of Bribies Goony shoot. Been missing in the threads as of late.

BribieG relevant question for once. Why do you polyclar and fine? I seem to get great results from just fining (gelatine) and CCing. I really haven't found the need to polyclar again on top of that. Agree your beers are very bright and present well but I seriously think I would be lucky to get a TallyHo paper between the brightness of your beers and mine? Not having a shot at ya BTW just curious is all?

Polyclar clears proteins, which cause haze; so on the one hand, it's good for presentation. On the other hand, it's whats happening behind the scenes that polyclar comes into it's own. Regardless of whether or not it presents better, it improves colloidal (sp?) stability, which allows the beer to store better.
(and the other day a certain Muckey one that said 'mm, nice beer this, but it's a bit hazy'... h34r: )

 

[muckey]

gelatine and polyclar do different things

gelatine drops the yeast - and helps it to stay dropped

polyclar helps with haze - chill and permanent and helps with (whats the word butters) stability and storage

besides, its nice to be able to show off to non brewers

edit I thought butters would be busy today. now I going to search my house for hidden cameras h34r:

 

[chappo1970]

(and the other day a certain Muckey one that said 'mm, nice beer this, but it's a bit hazy'... h34r: )

Wonder who's beer that would have been?

edit I thought butters would be busy today. now I going to search my house for hidden cameras h34r:

Ahhh! Ta very much Butters and Muckey. Chill haze doesn't freak me out much so I guess that's why I prolly haven't been paying attention to the polyclar thing.

(do you two hunt in packs or something? :icon_cheers: )

 

[Bribie G]

Yes I've also started polyclaring some of my darker beers because, especially with visitors, they expect everything to be served at pub temperature. Also I'm experimenting with Aussie Olds ATM and especially there they are good served at pub temps.

For example here's my Ruddles County tribute and you'd have to admit it would present better with a tad more clarity:



Also (puts on huge flame suit) there ain't no free lunches and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the flipsides of the ease and simplicity of BIAB is that there could be more crud carried over into the boil and then the cube compared to HERMS whatever. Jury is definitely out on that one by people more experienced and organic-chem savvy than I will ever be - you should see the learned academic references they quote in the BYO mag re wort clarity this month... but I think that Polyclar is a good and cheap insurance policy.

TB once posted as to what they do at Fosters to clear the beer and it was an eye opener, it's a real shock and awe operation with Polyclar type compounds being only one of the lines of attack they use (tongue of newt and eye of toad etc)

 

[chappo1970]

snip...example here's my Ruddles County tribute and you'd have to admit it would present better with a tad more clarity:

View attachment 26692

See that looks perfectly fine by me BribieG :icon_drool2: . In fact I need a beer now.
Correct me if I am wrong here but your use of polyclar is basically to combat/insure against the chill haze that BIAB can throw off?

 

[Bribie G]

See that looks perfectly fine by me BribieG :icon_drool2: . In fact I need a beer now.
Correct me if I am wrong here but your use of polyclar is basically to combat/insure against the chill haze that BIAB can throw off?

Yes but not just BIAB. I don't have a three vessel system obviously so I haven't had much to do with AG beers made on other people's systems, apart from club nights when most of the beer is served at civilised temps by the time people have transported them in their insulated baggies and they have sat around on the tables for a while and poured into hot glasses.
What I did find was that my kits n bits made on LDME were usually chill hazed to buggery and that's when I got into Polyclar.

The original poster might be interested in this aspect of using Gelatine and then Polyclar, if we haven't bored the guy to death already .

Edit: unlike Butters I'm not interested in long term stability as my beer never lasts that long :lol:

 

[reviled]

+1 I reckon that looks sweet as! Nothing wrong with a bit of haze

 

[warrenlw63]

+1 I reckon that looks sweet as! Nothing wrong with a bit of haze

Reviled by all accounts trace haze is soooo 2008. :lol:

You're not a real brewer unless you polyclar, filter and iradiate your beer dontchaknow?.

Warren -

 

[reviled]

Reviled by all accounts trace haze is soooo 2008. :lol:

You're not a real brewer unless you polyclar, filter and iradiate your beer dontchaknow?.

Warren -

:lol:

 

[T.D.]

Reviled by all accounts trace haze is soooo 2008. :lol:

You're not a real brewer unless you polyclar, filter and iradiate your beer dontchaknow?.

Warren -

:lol: You're not a real craft brewer till your beer resembles megaswill! <_<

 

[Pollux]

Also (puts on huge flame suit) there ain't no free lunches and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the flipsides of the ease and simplicity of BIAB is that there could be more crud carried over into the boil and then the cube compared to HERMS whatever. Jury is definitely out on that one by people more experienced and organic-chem savvy than I will ever be - you should see the learned academic references they quote in the BYO mag re wort clarity this month... but I think that Polyclar is a good and cheap insurance policy.

I support that motion.....I purely do BIAB and I am forever getting chill haze, I know that's it as I always throw 3 or 4 cantina (clear glass) bottles in each batch so I can check on yeast settling, and these bottles will contain perfectly clear beer, until they hit the fridge...

I need to get a proper fermentation fridge, so I can actually chill and add polyclar.

 

[Bribie G]

I support that motion.....I purely do BIAB and I am forever getting chill haze, I know that's it as I always throw 3 or 4 cantina (clear glass) bottles in each batch so I can check on yeast settling, and these bottles will contain perfectly clear beer, until they hit the fridge...

I need to get a proper fermentation fridge, so I can actually chill and add polyclar.

There was some discussion a few months ago about adding Polyclar at ambient or even hot as a clarifying agent in the kettle and there is a commercial variant available, apparently.
Give it a go, see if it works. From what I gather the PVP granules attract the polyphenols to them by electric charge and they 'stick' to the surface of each grain. It's not a 'coagulating' thing like gelatine or whirlfloc. So apart from the instructions on the packet to add to cold conditioning beer, I've never read of any compelling reason why you can't use the stuff at ambient or coolish.