Put on a keg at local club

[homebrewnewb]

that's the one, @laxation non-commercial so as soon as there is implied sale, you're outside the non-commercial i would have thought.
i have wondered though, if you could account to cover brewing costs, prior to a commercial threshold.

 

[laxation]

that's the one, @laxation non-commercial so as soon as there is implied sale, you're outside the non-commercial i would have thought.
i have wondered though, if you could account to cover brewing costs, prior to a commercial threshold.

OP isn't selling it though - he's donating it to the club, who then can do whatever they want with it.
there's probly some obscure **** hidden in some ato ruling about this

 

[earle]

Liquor licensing act (in Vic anyway) prohibits selling liquor without a licence, with the rest of the regulations in the law being those imposed on the licensee... so maybe no problems there

According to my thorough 3second googling, you don't need to pay excise if you're brewing for non-commercial purposes. Looking at other stuff like this, maybe giving away a keg of beer for a fundraiser is not brewing for a commercial purpose?

Non commercial loss rules are for something completely different and don't apply to this topic at all. Theses rules are about whether you can deduct a loss from one activity against income from employment or another activity. For this discussion commercial would most likely mean a supply for consideration, consideration being monetary or other.

 

[earle]

OP isn't selling it though - he's donating it to the club, who then can do whatever they want with it.
there's probly some obscure **** hidden in some ato ruling about this

Someone is selling it though

 

[GalBrew]

OP isn't selling it though - he's donating it to the club, who then can do whatever they want with it.
there's probly some obscure **** hidden in some ato ruling about this

Donations of beer are irrelevant. You can't do that, it's not even obscure. If you don't have a producers licence and pay excise to the ATO you can't sell beer that you have made regardless of who is selling. Not to mention state and local council laws you would also be flouting.

Just go with what Yob said. He has done this before.

 

[wynnum1]

Can you run a sausage sizzles some where the local school ran one at Masters and it was a disaster but have been told the ones at Bunnings are good if can get a day.

 

[laxation]

Alright got it... s120(1)(iiia) of the Excise Act prohibits anyone from selling beer unless it's been brewed at a licenced brewery.

Except they say it in the most confusing way possible. Who'd have expected that from an ancient bloody tax law...

Only a maximum $2100 fine, so just sell the beer really expensive at the fundraiser to cover costs! $34 a pot and you're golden.

But still.. can the club just give it away at the fundraiser just for people who are there?

 

[Pnutapper]

Alright got it... s120(1)(iiia) of the Excise Act prohibits anyone from selling beer unless it's been brewed at a licenced brewery.

Except they say it in the most confusing way possible. Who'd have expected that from an ancient bloody tax law...

Only a maximum $2100 fine, so just sell the beer really expensive at the fundraiser to cover costs! $34 a pot and you're golden.

But still.. can the club just give it away at the fundraiser just for people who are there?

My understanding of the Victorian laws is that homebrew / moonshine etc. is not to be dispensed on licensed premises - even if it is given away. From memory, it has something to do with inaccurate measurement of alcoholic content. (Disclaimer: I sold my last pub 16 years ago, so my licencing knowledge may be a little rusty by now.)

 

[laxation]

yeh you're probably right - i'm just curious about how it all fits together (and had a few min while I wait for a meeting...)

 

[ballantynedewolf]

I have now found the other threads on this topic - don't know why it was no hits last time.
So the long and short of it is that you have to set up a micobrewery and give or throw away your product until your microbrewery can obtain a licence to produce, pay an 83% excise on full strength beer and you're in business. Interestingly, the excise rate is indexed - an indexed index!

 

[EastVicLad]

Pretty sure i have been to a few partys that sell raffle tickets that can then be exchanged for drinks or kept for the raffle that way your not selling beer but selling raffle tickets... that was a few years ago

 

[Stouter]

Will some young go getter that's studying law please look into this and give us all a final, definite, detailed break down for state to state laws. Surely there's a law student that could take this and turn it into a study paper!?
I've heard a number of different versions/interpretations of alcohol sales in W.A from seasoned social club members and ex-police officers. None of the explainations give me confidence.

 

[laxation]

Will some young go getter that's studying law please look into this and give us all a final, definite, detailed break down for state to state laws. Surely there's a law student that could take this and turn it into a study paper!?
I've heard a number of different versions/interpretations of alcohol sales in W.A from seasoned social club members and ex-police officers. None of the explainations give me confidence.

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/put-on-a-keg-at-local-club.96807/page-2#post-1482163
And to follow on from the question I asked at the end...

The exemption for beer is only if one makes home-brewed beer for non-commercial purposes, using non-commercial equipment, then one may not need an excise licence as per ATO website section on Beer.

The act or intention of a commercial sale or distribution along a supply chain (even unknowingly) where the product is sold at any stage (for monetary or other consideration), is considered to be a commercial purpose and hence requires an Excise Manufacturer Licence, where excise duty would have to be paid.

 

[mondestrunken]

Surely there's a law student that could take this and turn it into a study paper!?

Unlikely given that most lawyers wouldn't scratch their balls* pro bono, and what are law students but lawyers without any money?
* Sorry I meant non gender-specific body part prone to itchiness.

 

[mondestrunken]

Given that Australians have probably been trying to make alcohol illegally and/or sell legally made booze without paying tax since 1788 I doubt there's a solution to this that hasn't been thoroughly thought through by the ATO at some point.
Maybe the best idea is gypsy brewing? That way all the legal/taxation stuff is handled by the established brewery who presumably know what they are doing. Of course the hard part would be finding a kindly and willing nanobrewery who has the time/capacity to help you out...

 

[mondestrunken]

ATO website section on Beer.

Maybe chuck 1/4 teaspoon of aspartame in the keg and hey presto it's no longer beer?

Edit: just so it's clear for legal reasons, that is a joke.

 

[MHB]

Then its classed as "Other" and the excise goes up past $55/L of alcohol, and I'm not joking

 

[mondestrunken]

Yep I told you they'd thought of everything.

 

[MHB]

Just went and had a look at the Excise Tables, try $82.76/L

 

[mondestrunken]

So wine is not taxed on the alcohol content? Just the "wholesale value"? What does that mean?
https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Wine-equalisation-tax/