Pump for spray ball;

[mfroes]

Hi Guys,
I recently decided to buy a spray ball as i saw it so cheap on ebay (from china of course).
so i went over and bought the smaller one i could find

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111350285176?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


but the regular 19L/min pump wont give enough pressure to wash the entire brewing vessel.
is there anyone that have a spray ball and had the same problem?
anyone knows a pump i could use?

i saw pumps like these on ebay
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-600W-Water-Pump-Stainless-Steel-High-Pressure-Jet-Garden-Tank-Swimming-Pool-/281324818210?ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:AU:1123

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WEATHERISED-800W-Stainless-Steel-Garden-Water-Pump-Tank-Rain-Pond-Pool-Irrigate-/351171961512?ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:AU:1123

but every time i ask they tell me that it cant be used with cleaning chemicals.

then searching on google i saw that this exists:
https://www.brewershardware.com/Rotating-CIP-Spray-Ball-1-2-Female-FPT-Connection.html


do anyone have it? would i be better buying one of those pumps or a new spray ball or something ?
all help is welcome

thanks

 

[fraser_john]

Do a search on aliexpress.com for 12v pond pumps, there are some out there that draw quite a few amps and produce quite a bit of pressure, should be enough to run a CIP system. Most CIP that use that kind of thing are for unattended use though, so not 100% sure why you would need it. When I am running CIP on my mash tun, I recirc the cleaning solution (caustic, sod.perc, tricleanium) I just swirl the hose around so it gets everything covered.

 

[TheWiggman]

I've designed spray systems for washing vehicles so I have a bit of experience in this area.
Off the bat I'm sorry, but I can't imagine a home brew pump will have the pressure these things are designed for.
There are THOUSANDS of spray heads available but they all have an ideal operating pressure and, thus, flow. When designing a system (which normally consists of lots of sprays) you need to work out how much flow each will use and then pick a pump that can handle that pressure at the sum of the flows.
You've gone the other way around and sadly I think you'll need a fair bit of pressure for something will such small orifices to work how you want it to. Check out http://www.spray.com.au for an equivalent spray nozzle and that should have the details you're after.
$8.79 you'll never get back.
Ed: you'll probably want a pump with min 5 bar / 500 kPa pressure. Those ones you linked might do the job but barely.

 

[mfroes]

Do a search on aliexpress.com for 12v pond pumps, there are some out there that draw quite a few amps and produce quite a bit of pressure, should be enough to run a CIP system. Most CIP that use that kind of thing are for unattended use though, so not 100% sure why you would need it. When I am running CIP on my mash tun, I recirc the cleaning solution (caustic, sod.perc, tricleanium) I just swirl the hose around so it gets everything covered.

Hi,
I have tried the aliexpress, but didnt want to go on a 12V otherwise i would have to get a transformer, water proof it, etc.
and they all seemed to be the same price as the ebay ones. couldnt find one with lots of pressure thou.

 

[mfroes]

I've designed spray systems for washing vehicles so I have a bit of experience in this area.
Off the bat I'm sorry, but I can't imagine a home brew pump will have the pressure these things are designed for.
There are THOUSANDS of spray heads available but they all have an ideal operating pressure and, thus, flow. When designing a system (which normally consists of lots of sprays) you need to work out how much flow each will use and then pick a pump that can handle that pressure at the sum of the flows.
You've gone the other way around and sadly I think you'll need a fair bit of pressure for something will such small orifices to work how you want it to. Check out http://www.spray.com.au for an equivalent spray nozzle and that should have the details you're after.
$8.79 you'll never get back.
Ed: you'll probably want a pump with min 5 bar / 500 kPa pressure. Those ones you linked might do the job but barely.

Hi Wiggman,
i have tried their website but as it seems the correct one would be http://www.tankjet.com/ as i went to spray nozzle -> tank cleaning.
but then their distributors are all in the US. my guess is that spray.com.au must be one of them.
which one is this 8.79 one ? would it work with a home brew pump ? would you be able to get more information ?
tried sending an email to nick(representative of spray.com.au) and lets see what happens.
havent been lucky enough to find any detailed information on it.

i wished that all equipment would be like computer parts. would just get the FCCID and check with the manufacturer the specs of everything.
do anyone knows how much pressure a homebrew 19l/min would give ? as far as i know one have nothing to do with the other.

thanks guys

 

[TheWiggman]

$8.79 is the one you linked that you said you bought.

Green pumps (which are 19 l/min) pump to 3.4m head. They don't deliver that pressure at that flow, but that's another story. 3.4m = ~34 kPa.

Spraying Systems Co. are the large body that manufactures the range of this gear. The place you went to is the right place which I checked out later and confirmed you want about 500 kPa of pressure. Technically you could run 15 pumps in series and get the pressure you want.
... or just bail on the idea and resort to a scourer like the rest of us (which I recommend)

 

[Crouch]

I have to agree with TheWiggman ... CIP sounds good, but totally over-kill, and everyone I have spoken to about it who originally were going to hard-plumb and CIP never did. I guess it also depends on how you system is setup of-course. is it hard-plumbed? Whilst I have only used my 3v system a few times, i have found that I do not actually need to move things around to much so I just circulate cleaning stuff through all the pipes, pumps, coils, pots etc and give everything a rub down with a nylon pad and then rinse everything with clean water ... I do have in-floor drains so that makes it easier in terms of spraying water all over the place though.

None of that provides any answers

It's just my two-cents.

Cheers

 

[mfroes]

i was hoping to do something like this guy. he just uses the brewing march pump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5s2Srt67TM

i am just too lazy to clean everything. otherwise would brew a lot more.
i wished i could use something like that to clean maybe sanitise the fermenters ?
i've been trying to find but i guess is a useless search.

i'll keep my eye out for something and let you guys know how it goes.

thanks

 

[klangers]

The only reason cleaning in place came about was because equipment became too big to feasibly clean by hand. Cleaning such big equipment on a very regular basis would have required a small army of men and all manner of gantries and harness and whatnot. Since our homebrew vessels are so small, we can just reach in and give them a scrub by hand which is far more time efficient than spraying.

The spray ball you've bought looks like it would suit a tank of 2-5000 L. Because your vessels are far smaller than this, you may be able to get away with a lower-than-normal flow. However, the downside is that you may not get the necessary kinetic energy in the jets to really blast much muck off. If your goal is to just keep the sanitiser flowing over the vessel walls so you don't use so much water then this will certainly get you there in some way or another.

Of course without pump curves I can't actually tell you which specific pump will work. However, I can say that proper CIP uses water-caustic-water or water-caustic-water-acid-water and the pumps that can deal with these chemicals are 304L or 316 stainless centrifugals. Any food-grade pump should be built to withstand cleaning chemicals - how else could you clean the pump?

Just get a plastic garden sprinkler - they're intended for far lower flows than an industrial spray ball.

 

[mfeighan]

i use a 360deg sprinkler head with my march pump(s) i put the 2 in series to deliver enough pressure. Let me know how you go so if its worth while i will grab one. Saves rolling out my 3v system to clean a fermenter

 

[mfroes]

i will try getting home today and let you know mikey


EDIT: for the later spray ball(the one on the first post) there is this AU company that seems to have them
http://www.corebrewingconcepts.com.au/store/tri-clover-cip-spray-balls/

and there is always the keg king one
http://kegking.com.au/magento/cleaners-and-sanitising-equipment/cip-spinning-spray-ball-pom-acetyl.html

 

[mfroes]

hi guys.
putting 2 pumps in series, it can actually create a bit of pressure to reach the walls of the vessels.
mine are 50cm wide. so about 25cm from the ball.
not a lot of pressure, but enough to cover the walls with liquid.

still thinking on a final solution.

 

[mfeighan]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-DC-Diaphragm-Water-Pump-40PSI/181549235156?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D9258a82bd1f94043885226cbf0094de5%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20140106155344%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D131214154679&rt=nc
i think this one ticks the boxes