Problem with Auber SYL-2352 PID controller.

[Screwtop]

Has anyone had a problem with accuracy using the Auber SYS-2352P. Last Friday during the first run of my new PID controlled HERMS I noticed that the controller was sometimes hunting and having trouble maintaining temp. I had autotuned the PID using water in the mash tun and all went perfectly, but during the mash temp swung by up to three degrees above and below set point. The only difference was that during the mash I was recirculating wort not water and the flow rate was slow, so as not to compact the grainbed. Gave it a test run later and found the same result using just water, but only when flow was slowed.

Thinking about this, flow rate should not affect the reading from the temp probe or the controller. Remembered reading something in the manual quick guide regarding poor accuracy, so checked this again.

8.3 Poor Accuracy Please make sure calibration is done by immersing the probe in liquid. Comparing the reference in air is not recommended because response time of the sensor depends on its mass.

Looking at the location of the probe in the wort out of the HEX I wondered if an air bubble in the fitting where the probe is located could be the issue, possibly less of a problem when flow rate is higher. Maybe some air has been trapped in the cavity.

Wondering if others have experienced this and how others have their probe mounted. Previously using an STC-1000 probe in a thermowell screwed into the same location caused no issues. Am using the Auber 2.5in PT100 probe.

Thinking I might re-plumb the probe to the bottom of the outlet!

 

[Camo6]

Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.

 

[TheCarbinator]

Has anyone had a problem with accuracy using the Auber SYS-2352P. issues. Am using the Auber 2.5in PT100 probe.

Screwy

I was having similar problems when I first ran mine.

After a lot of experimentation and a few calls to the Auberins Tech support in the States, there is a french guy there who knows what he is talking about and helped me with the settings.

Now I have +/- 0.2 degrees.

You can try the following settings and then run an autotune with the same flow rate as during the mash (ideally circulating wort).

ALM1 100
ALM2 3
Hy1 1
Hy2 1
Hy 0.1
At 3
I 114
P 488
D 22
T 6
Sn 21
dP 1
P-SL -100
P-SH 2500
Pb 0.0
OP-A 0
OUTL 0
OUTH 100
AL-P 17
COOL 2
Addr 1
bAud 4800
FILt 0
A-M 2
LocK 808
EPI-EP8 nonE


Let me know how you go.

 

[TSMill]

I initially tried to autotune mine just using water. I increased the volume to account for the absent grain, pro-rated based on heat capacity of grain vs. water.....long story short it did not calibrate with a "real" mash as well as I would like. I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.

In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA. One thing to note, when running the autotune the timer seems to stop, so if you have a 60 min rest at 66 and the autotune takes 15, it will run that step for 75mins unless you intervene.

 

[TheCarbinator]

I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.

In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA.

+1

 

[Screwtop]

Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.

[SIZE=10.5pt]I feel the smaller thermowell size would be better as the 2.5in does protrude right through the T into the inlet side. [/SIZE]

Screwy

I was having similar problems when I first ran mine.

After a lot of experimentation and a few calls to the Auberins Tech support in the States, there is a french guy there who knows what he is talking about and helped me with the settings.

Now I have +/- 0.2 degrees.

You can try the following settings and then run an autotune with the same flow rate as during the mash (ideally circulating wort).

ALM1 100
ALM2 3
Hy1 1
Hy2 1
Hy 0.1
At 3
I 114
P 488
D 22
T 6
Sn 21
dP 1
P-SL -100
P-SH 2500
Pb 0.0
OP-A 0
OUTL 0
OUTH 100
AL-P 17
COOL 2
Addr 1
bAud 4800
FILt 0
A-M 2
LocK 808
EPI-EP8 nonE


Let me know how you go.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Thanks mate is this what you have now[/SIZE], or were these settings provided by Suyi from Auber Instruments. The reason for asking is that I is set by autotuning.

[SIZE=10.5pt] EDIT: I see these are your settings after autotune as your At=3[/SIZE]

I initially tried to autotune mine just using water. I increased the volume to account for the absent grain, pro-rated based on heat capacity of grain vs. water.....long story short it did not calibrate with a "real" mash as well as I would like. I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.

In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA. One thing to note, when running the autotune the timer seems to stop, so if you have a 60 min rest at 66 and the autotune takes 15, it will run that step for 75mins unless you intervene.

Yes the timer does stop during autotune, a trap for new players, luckily I had followed a step provided by QldKev and had a ramp to temp followed by Txx=0 so it was waiting for input after autotune. Autotune with the flow rate restricted took one hour as I had set Hy-2=3, Hy-1=3, Hy=2 so the thing kept heating to 3 degrees SV set point and then switching off until 3 degrees below SV.

Thanks Brewers,

Screwy

 

[TSMill]

Autotune with the flow rate restricted took one hour as I had set Hy-2=3, Hy-1=3, Hy=2 so the thing kept heating to 3 degrees SV set point and then switching off until 3 degrees below SV.

That does not sound right to me, based on those values it should be 1 degrees above or below (3-2). I don't think the deviation alarms impact auto tuning though, they only provide a delay moving onto the next step following a ramp (so, until you are within 1 degree of the end of the ramp step, it will not move on to the next soak step).

 

[Screwtop]

That does not sound right to me, based on those values it should be 1 degrees above or below (3-2). I don't think the deviation alarms impact auto tuning though, they only provide a delay moving onto the next step following a ramp (so, until you are within 1 degree of the end of the ramp step, it will not move on to the next soak step).

Thanks mate, I returned Hy settings to default and did another autotune and got the same result. This is where I started to think maybe there was air around the probe. Rearranged the outlet/probe position as below, will need to check this out,

 

[Screwtop]

Fitted 240v alarms and isolation switches and gave the system another run today. Changed parameter settings as recommended by TSMill and pretty much got the same result. Had to open up the pump out valve a little more, so it appears it's a flow rate problem and not air in the system. Maintained temp at +- .2C at the higher flow rate. Thanks for the suggestions brewers, will just have to recirculate a little faster than previously and check/stir occasionally.

Screwy

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.

Cam
The thermo well was designed and machined to be of optimum length (32mm) so it sits just above the compression fitting and thermowell junction, any longer and it would constrict flow. Any shorter and it will not contact the liquid flow at low flow speeds.
Nev

 

[Camo6]

Cheers Nev,

Thermowells worked flawlessly but I'm updating my controller (soonish) and seems the 1.5" pt100 would be the most suitable. I didn't notice anything shorter on the Auber website.

Good to see your post. Hope you had a good trip and caught a few big uns'.

 

[The Gas Man]

Today I got an electrician to wire up my 2 auberin 2352P PID's.

After reading many of your comments, I've finally got it to accept a set point (just to see if the control box is working)
C2 = 67, t2 = 20
C3 = 78, t3 = 10

As you can see from the attachment, the temp has not yet reached the setpoint, so the PID output light is green and so is the relay contact light on my control box, and the water temp is getting hotter.

However, when it does reach the desired set point, the PID output light goes out, but the control box relay light stays on and element stays on (see attachment)



My settings are all as per "the Carbinators" above.

My electrician has confirmed that the PID output is still not opening the circuit to turn it off even though the PID output light has gone off.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Paul

 

[Camo6]

Where are you getting power for the LED's? I take it they're 12V LED's wired from the PID's 12V control output to the SSR to indicate when the circuit is closed? Or are they 240V LED's wired into the output circuit of the SSR? Regardless, if they're staying lit when the PID output indicator is off it sounds like you have either a faulty PID or, more likely, an incorrectly wired circuit.

 

[The Gas Man]

I believe the led lights are fed from the outlet of the relay as confirmation that the circuit is working. My electrician took a reading with his multimeter straight from the terminals at the back of the pid and confirmed that the pid was still feeding a signal for the relay to stay on.

 

[Camo6]

If the pids still putting out 12v to the signal input of the ssr with the outout light being on sounds like the pids at fault. Mind you I'm no expert but it's all still fresh in my mind from my own build. Maybe contact Auber about it. Their customer support is pretty good.

 

[The Gas Man]

Thanks Cam, started to contact them today. Hopefully its something simple.

 

[Camo6]

Edit: for clarity I meant "without the pid output light being on" in my above post.

I got very quick responses from them Gasman. Good luck with it and make sure you post some pics when it's done.

 

[gava]

Cheers Nev,

Thermowells worked flawlessly but I'm updating my controller (soonish) and seems the 1.5" pt100 would be the most suitable. I didn't notice anything shorter on the Auber website.

Good to see your post. Hope you had a good trip and caught a few big uns'.

I have some 20mm 1/2" thread pt100 probes which im picking up Saturday.

-gav

 

[Camo6]

Cheers Gav. I ended up using the 1.5" straight into the t piece and on the one batch I've done had no probs maintaining .3 degree swing. This was after an autotune and running the pumps fully open.

 

[gava]

I was looking at the Auber unit when I did my kit but it didn't say what IP rating they were.. The timer i got from them doesn't look like it has a good seal i.e. not really splash proof they had a opening on the bottom.. How do the PIDs look when mounted? the PIDS I ended up with were ones sourced myself and have a IP rating of 65 and sit out about 10mm more than my Auber timer. Which annoyed me due to all my controls not being the same height! although I love the timer..

-Gav