Problem with Auber SYL-2352 PID controller.

[TheCarbinator]

So I bought the following items a couple of weeks ago to make up my HERMS temp controller.

Auber PID Model: SYL-2352P
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4

Temp probe (PT 100)
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=261

Also bought the appropriate SSR and heatsink to suit.

I had them hooked up by an electrician while carefully reading the instructions.

Then when I turn it on, the temperature is showing (as far as I can work out) minus two hundred and something degrees.

That was after I changed the settings to celcius.

Then I swapped the two red wires on terminals 3 and four.

Now it is showing 636 degrees celcius (as in photo)

.

Has anyone come across this?

Any advice would be great!

Cheers

Andrew

 

[dmac80]

Hi Andrew,

White goes to 5, reds to 4 and 3.

Cheers
Dan

 

[TheCarbinator]

Hi Andrew,

White goes to 5, reds to 4 and 3.

Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan

Yeah that is how it is hooked up.

I'm starting to think that the "636" is not an actual temperature cos it has not changed.

 

[goodbrew]

reading through the manual it has an initial setting for a K type thermocouple, have you changed this to a PT100 rtd?

cheers
John

 

[TheCarbinator]

reading through the manual it has an initial setting for a K type thermocouple, have you changed this to a PT100 rtd?

cheers
John

Yeah I have set the sn setting to 21

 

[Edak]

I would guess that the settings are wrong or you are looking at a non-temperature screen.

Offsets like that are really significant and aren't usually from connection problems, however do you have some sort of connector between the controller and the sensor or is the sensor screwed directly onto the controller?

 

[dmac80]

Then make sure your connections are nice and tight, PT100's can be prone to playing up due to bad connections.

Have you set it up for PT100? Setting Sn should be 21. Yes (edit. Too slow)

Cheers

 

[Edak]

Also, if you have a multimeter, can you measure across one of the red wires and the white one (whilst disconnected from the controller). It should read about 100-110 ohms (0 degrees-23 degrees)

 

[TheCarbinator]

you are looking at a non-temperature screen.

Yeah I am thinking the same thing.
I am hoping that it is something simple.


The probe is connected straight to the controller as it is designed to do.

 

[TheCarbinator]

Also, if you have a multimeter, can you measure across one of the red wires and the white one (whilst disconnected from the controller). It should read about 100-110 ohms (0 degrees-23 degrees)

Ok yeah my electrician mate has one.

Maybe the probe could be faulty

 

[TSMill]

I bought the same probe and had to re-solder one of the wires. I recall the error was something similar to what you are describing, memory
is a bit fuzzy.

 

[Edak]

I spin out when I hear that people don't have a multimeter because this day in age almost everything is electronic. It's a tool that you can get for under 5 dollars delivered from China, takes 5 minutes to learn how to use it can save a lot of hassle when you have problems with any electronic device.

This is not a dig, rather an observation. The problem is definitely your sensor connection as identified on the USA forum where you posted the same question. The user manual states it on the last page. Measure your RTD to see whether it is faulty and you will have your answer.

 

[TheCarbinator]

I spin out when I hear that people don't have a multimeter because this day in age almost everything is electronic.

Yeah you are dead right!
I guess what makes it worse for me is that my dad is an electrician, he wanted to train me as a sparkie and all I wanted to be was a chippie because it interested me more.

I might pull the probe apart and have a look for any loose connections, hopefully that will be my problem.
Other than that, I will have to learn how to use a bloody multimeter!

 

[TheCarbinator]

Bingo!





Loose cable.

Poor form on Auber's part I think.

 

[TheCarbinator]

Bingo!


View attachment 61962View attachment 61962


Loose cable.

Poor form on Auber's part I think.

 

[QldKev]

I'm a bit later now since you found it, but my Auber probe had that same issue.

 

[TheCarbinator]

I'm a bit later now since you found it, but my Auber probe had that same issue.

Got it working, now just need to work out how to program the bloody thing!

 

[Edak]

Was it just one red wire that was loose? It is imperative that both red wires are used (and not connected to reach other at the controller end) because otherwise your readings will be wrong.

 

[TheCarbinator]

Yeah just one wire was loose.

 

[Tex083]

I would send the pic back to Auber, not to be offensive to them but as a FYI thing as im sure they wouldnt want anyone else to have the same problem.

 

[Screwtop]

Has anyone had a problem with accuracy using the Auber SYS-2352P. Last Friday during the first run of my new PID controlled HERMS I noticed that the controller was sometimes hunting and having trouble maintaining temp. I had autotuned the PID using water in the mash tun and all went perfectly, but during the mash temp swung by up to three degrees above and below set point. The only difference was that during the mash I was recirculating wort not water and the flow rate was slow, so as not to compact the grainbed. Gave it a test run later and found the same result using just water, but only when flow was slowed.

Thinking about this, flow rate should not affect the reading from the temp probe or the controller. Remembered reading something in the manual quick guide regarding poor accuracy, so checked this again.

8.3 Poor Accuracy Please make sure calibration is done by immersing the probe in liquid. Comparing the reference in air is not recommended because response time of the sensor depends on its mass.

Looking at the location of the probe in the wort out of the HEX I wondered if an air bubble in the fitting where the probe is located could be the issue, possibly less of a problem when flow rate is higher. Maybe some air has been trapped in the cavity.

Wondering if others have experienced this and how others have their probe mounted. Previously using an STC-1000 probe in a thermowell screwed into the same location caused no issues. Am using the Auber 2.5in PT100 probe.

Thinking I might re-plumb the probe to the bottom of the outlet!

 

[Camo6]

Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.

 

[TheCarbinator]

Has anyone had a problem with accuracy using the Auber SYS-2352P. issues. Am using the Auber 2.5in PT100 probe.

Screwy

I was having similar problems when I first ran mine.

After a lot of experimentation and a few calls to the Auberins Tech support in the States, there is a french guy there who knows what he is talking about and helped me with the settings.

Now I have +/- 0.2 degrees.

You can try the following settings and then run an autotune with the same flow rate as during the mash (ideally circulating wort).

ALM1 100
ALM2 3
Hy1 1
Hy2 1
Hy 0.1
At 3
I 114
P 488
D 22
T 6
Sn 21
dP 1
P-SL -100
P-SH 2500
Pb 0.0
OP-A 0
OUTL 0
OUTH 100
AL-P 17
COOL 2
Addr 1
bAud 4800
FILt 0
A-M 2
LocK 808
EPI-EP8 nonE


Let me know how you go.

 

[TSMill]

I initially tried to autotune mine just using water. I increased the volume to account for the absent grain, pro-rated based on heat capacity of grain vs. water.....long story short it did not calibrate with a "real" mash as well as I would like. I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.

In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA. One thing to note, when running the autotune the timer seems to stop, so if you have a 60 min rest at 66 and the autotune takes 15, it will run that step for 75mins unless you intervene.

 

[TheCarbinator]

I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.

In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA.

+1

 

[Screwtop]

Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.

[SIZE=10.5pt]I feel the smaller thermowell size would be better as the 2.5in does protrude right through the T into the inlet side. [/SIZE]

Screwy

I was having similar problems when I first ran mine.

After a lot of experimentation and a few calls to the Auberins Tech support in the States, there is a french guy there who knows what he is talking about and helped me with the settings.

Now I have +/- 0.2 degrees.

You can try the following settings and then run an autotune with the same flow rate as during the mash (ideally circulating wort).

ALM1 100
ALM2 3
Hy1 1
Hy2 1
Hy 0.1
At 3
I 114
P 488
D 22
T 6
Sn 21
dP 1
P-SL -100
P-SH 2500
Pb 0.0
OP-A 0
OUTL 0
OUTH 100
AL-P 17
COOL 2
Addr 1
bAud 4800
FILt 0
A-M 2
LocK 808
EPI-EP8 nonE


Let me know how you go.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Thanks mate is this what you have now[/SIZE], or were these settings provided by Suyi from Auber Instruments. The reason for asking is that I is set by autotuning.

[SIZE=10.5pt] EDIT: I see these are your settings after autotune as your At=3[/SIZE]

I initially tried to autotune mine just using water. I increased the volume to account for the absent grain, pro-rated based on heat capacity of grain vs. water.....long story short it did not calibrate with a "real" mash as well as I would like. I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.

In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA. One thing to note, when running the autotune the timer seems to stop, so if you have a 60 min rest at 66 and the autotune takes 15, it will run that step for 75mins unless you intervene.

Yes the timer does stop during autotune, a trap for new players, luckily I had followed a step provided by QldKev and had a ramp to temp followed by Txx=0 so it was waiting for input after autotune. Autotune with the flow rate restricted took one hour as I had set Hy-2=3, Hy-1=3, Hy=2 so the thing kept heating to 3 degrees SV set point and then switching off until 3 degrees below SV.

Thanks Brewers,

Screwy

 

[TSMill]

Autotune with the flow rate restricted took one hour as I had set Hy-2=3, Hy-1=3, Hy=2 so the thing kept heating to 3 degrees SV set point and then switching off until 3 degrees below SV.

That does not sound right to me, based on those values it should be 1 degrees above or below (3-2). I don't think the deviation alarms impact auto tuning though, they only provide a delay moving onto the next step following a ramp (so, until you are within 1 degree of the end of the ramp step, it will not move on to the next soak step).

 

[Screwtop]

That does not sound right to me, based on those values it should be 1 degrees above or below (3-2). I don't think the deviation alarms impact auto tuning though, they only provide a delay moving onto the next step following a ramp (so, until you are within 1 degree of the end of the ramp step, it will not move on to the next soak step).

Thanks mate, I returned Hy settings to default and did another autotune and got the same result. This is where I started to think maybe there was air around the probe. Rearranged the outlet/probe position as below, will need to check this out,

 

[Screwtop]

Fitted 240v alarms and isolation switches and gave the system another run today. Changed parameter settings as recommended by TSMill and pretty much got the same result. Had to open up the pump out valve a little more, so it appears it's a flow rate problem and not air in the system. Maintained temp at +- .2C at the higher flow rate. Thanks for the suggestions brewers, will just have to recirculate a little faster than previously and check/stir occasionally.

Screwy

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.

Cam
The thermo well was designed and machined to be of optimum length (32mm) so it sits just above the compression fitting and thermowell junction, any longer and it would constrict flow. Any shorter and it will not contact the liquid flow at low flow speeds.
Nev