Preparing For All Grain.. I Have Some Questions!

[The7]

Hi folks, as the title says Im preparing some equipment to do some all grain. Ive got my 3 vessels HLT, mash tun and kettle. My HLT is a keg (it had no spear in it when i got it) and it seems to have some really old beer residue caked inside it or may even be some rust residue! Now what should I use to clean it off? I soaked it in water overnight, but that didnt budge it. also what should I use to seal the taps to the tank? is the fibre washer that I have in the pic fine? I though that it would resist heat better, but I dont want to use anything that could taint the brew.

Cheers in advance.. I cant wait to make a really nice beer!

 

[razz]

I used caustic soda in my soda kegs when I got them, it got rid of stains and soda smells. You could try silicone washers for heat resistance.

 

[loftboy]

Hi,

I used some detergent, water & fine steel wool to clean any crud off my boil kettle (converted keg). I gave a good rinse after cleaning + ran a full boil of just water afterwards. In your case I would imagine getting your HLT up to say sparging temp or maybe a little hotter should do the same for you.

Hope this helps,

David.

P.S. I personally wouldn't use any metal cleaning products like Autosol, because I think you would leave some residue behind, that you don't want anywhere near you beer.

 

[loftboy]

You could try silicone washers for heat resistance.

+1 On the silicon washer idea. I cut a piece from a silicon loaf pan, as they are heat resitant & food grade. Got the idea from here - http://goatherder.googlepages.com/tapassembly

 

[The7]

Hi,

I used some detergent, water & fine steel wool to clean any crud off my boil kettle (converted keg). I gave a good rinse after cleaning + ran a full boil of just water afterwards. In your case I would imagine getting your HLT up to say sparging temp or maybe a little hotter should do the same for you.

Hope this helps,

David.

P.S. I personally wouldn't use any metal cleaning products like Autosol, because I think you would leave some residue behind, that you don't want anywhere near you beer.

Cheers for the quick replies guys!

I was going to do as you have suggested mate, but I was worried that steel wool may impregnate itself in the stainless steel. maybe Im over concerned about it, But I guess I dont want to loose any batches for silly reasons

 

[The7]

thats a bloody brilliant idea for the washers, cheers!

 

[Screwtop]

Fibre washers work fine. Wear gloves, make up a warm water and caustic solution and scrub with heavy duty SS wool, rinse then use a little phosphoric acid (I use it neat) and scrub again. That's what I use and it works well.

 

[domonsura]

Don't use steel wool, it will stuff impregnate the stainless with steel and you'll have major trouble getting rid of the resulting rust.... use a synthetic scotchbrite pad (the green ones). If you must use something more abrasive, use ss steel wool as screwtop says.
Fibre washers are fine, but they are also a little porous so will absorb whatever liquid you expose them to. Not really an issue in the real scheme of things, but something to think about in an environment where you really want to keep things as clean as you can....
I'd personally just get some cheap unscented nappy wash powder, make up a nice strong solution and soak that vessel overnight, the crud should come off with minimum effort. If that doesn't work then throw some caustic at it (also as screwtop says ) I just prefer to take the caustic free (safer) approach unless it's really necessary. Napisan is damn good stuff......

 

[chovain]

I used some detergent, water & fine steel wool to clean any crud off my boil kettle (converted keg).

I'd avoid using steel wool on SS. Go for a plastic abrasive (like the green scrub pads you can get near the steel wool in the supermarket).

 

[domonsura]

Actually The7, I didn't realise you are in Adelaide. If you're in the area of my workshop at all, feel free to call in and I'll donate a scotchbrite pad to your effort. Mine are industrial grade and will make short work of that yuck stuff! I'm doing a brew (Smurto's golden ale) this evening for the first time in months so I'll be here this evening until quite late.

 

[The7]

Actually The7, I didn't realise you are in Adelaide. If you're in the area of my workshop at all, feel free to call in and I'll donate a scotchbrite pad to your effort. Mine are industrial grade and will make short work of that yuck stuff! I'm doing a brew (Smurto's golden ale) this evening for the first time in months so I'll be here this evening until quite late.

Is your workshop on exeter tce? I drove past there last week and had a quick look, but I had to get back home in time to go to work. Im in Morphett Vale.
I noticed that you do a bit of Fabrication. Are you a Boilermaker/welder by trade? Im a welder also, just without the trade tickets Cheers for the offer on the scotchbrite, I apprecite it but I have some here.

 

[chiller]

Just a word on Caustic Soda,

It is a very dangerous chemical -- repeat very dangerous.

When caustic soda reacts with water it generates heat, the reaction is exothermic.

Do not add caustic soda to warm, very hot or boiling water it can explode in a very violent reaction. Caustic soda has a pH of above 13 and combined with heat causes very severe skin damage.

Caustic soda dissolves fats and is particularly vicious on the membranes in your eyes.

Personally I feel caustic soda should not be recommended for homebrewers due to the extreme potential for life threatening injury.

If you insist on the folly of using such a chemical [because the big boys do] then please wear safety glasses and cover any and all exposed skin. Wear gloves that can protect from alkali burns.

Steve

 

[domonsura]

Is your workshop on exeter tce? I drove past there last week and had a quick look, but I had to get back home in time to go to work. Im in Morphett Vale.
I noticed that you do a bit of Fabrication. Are you a Boilermaker/welder by trade? Im a welder also, just without the trade tickets Cheers for the offer on the scotchbrite, I apprecite it but I have some here.

Yep, the workshop is in a yard off Exeter terrace. I'm not a welder/boilermaker by trade (I'm actually a Chef by trade) I just grew up in a workshop and have a "make it happen" attitude combined for a new found love of making beer. I'd love to have trade certs, but unfortunately the old man had 'bigger & better' plans (whatever the hell that means...) and wouldn't let me pursue a work trade. I think he had plans of me being a doctor or lawyer or something .....and they definitely didn't fit in with mine . So here I am.....


And yes Chiller - Caustic is potentially dangerous if mis-used, I assume though that people who are already playing with LPG burners and making alcohol are at least sensible enough to read the directions on the jar and follow them however as you point out it requires precautions just like everything else. I make a point of wearing full face protection and gloves when using caustic, and I recommend that anyone else using it does the same thing.

I do think though that referring to using it as 'folly' is going a bit far. This isn't kindergarten - we're all grown ups here, and one of the reasons the big boys use it is because it works and it does a wonderful job.

 

[chiller]

I do think though that referring to using it as 'folly' is going a bit far. This isn't kindergarten - we're all grown ups here, and one of the reasons the big boys use it is because it works and it does a wonderful job.

Ok hands up those that understand the potential of caustic soda [sodium hydroxide] added to boiling water for extreme injury.

Not all that many. And the reason?

Sodium hydroxide is sold as a drain cleaner so it must be safe -- right? Not necassarily.

domonsura I don't care or imply that you or anyone else is or isn't at kindergarten level at any area of life or any activity they undertake. You personally may have expert knowledge in handling all manner of corrosive materials and fully understand and implement those procedures. My concern is not for the expert, it is for the unsuspecting weekend brewer who uses a chemical that can be very dangerous.

 

[domonsura]

I said you calling it 'folly' was going too far, and I meant it.

"If you insist on the folly of using such a chemical [because the big boys do]"

folly (fl)
n. pl. follies
1. A lack of good sense, understanding, or foresight.
2.
a. An act or instance of foolishness: regretted the follies of his youth.
b. A costly undertaking having an absurd or ruinous outcome.
3. follies (used with a sing. or pl. verb) An elaborate theatrical revue consisting of music, dance, and skits.
4. Obsolete
a. Perilously or criminally foolish action.
b. Evil; wickedness.
c. Lewdness; lasciviousness.

I don't like being called foolish, or anything else in the list above. I suspect that no-one else does either. I use caustic because it works, not because "the big boys do". If you want to be all grandma about it, go right ahead, but I credit my fellow brewers with having common sense enough to be able to read the directions on the jar and follow them, instead of labelling them 'too foolish' to be able to use it without hurting themselves.

 

[chiller]

It would appear you are reacting to a general comment about Caustic soda and taking it rather personally considering your post was reasonably sensible. Read the thread again your mention of Caustic was 3rd off the rank.

 

[domonsura]

I'm reacting to your post calling using caustic folly and suggesting that people use it 'because the big boys do', which is just plain ludicrous. It might be folly for you, but I consider it perfectly sensible. Doesn't matter how far down it was 'ranked'. Perhaps you should make better choices as far as your words go.

 

[Darren]

Just a word on Caustic Soda,

It is a very dangerous chemical -- repeat very dangerous.

When caustic soda reacts with water it generates heat, the reaction is exothermic.

Steve

I am not taking sides here but one thing that most people do not realise is that if you try to wash caustic off with water, it burns you worse.

One drop in your eyes (after a couple of beers maybe) and they are gone.

I would recommend hot sodium percarbonate (napisan) to clean the boiler.

cheers

Darren

 

[chiller]

As this post stands now anyone reading this has a good opportunity to examine both sides of the discussion. I don't alter my view as to the 1. A lack of good sense, understanding, or foresight. in using such a chemical if you have no understanding of the consequences. You on the other hand appear well verse in the use of such chemicals and as such they pose little or no danger to you.

I'm mentioning this from a common sense aspect. I fully appreciate that it is not my responsibility to nanny anyone however now hopefully if someone intends to use this or other chemicals in their brewery and they are unaware of the dangers they may just google the safety procedures and avoid danger to themselves or those around them

And believe me I'm not a grandma

 

[chovain]

:icon_offtopic:

I think what Domonsura is getting at is the following point that I've made on a couple of occasions. People frequently say things like, "don't use electric elements in your HLT; electricity is dangerous, and you'll get electrocuted." Advice like this is counter-productive, because the brewers who avoid whatever is being warned against without fully understanding, end up doing something dumb like electrocuting themselves with their pump, or blowing themselves up with a bad gas fitting. The person who "learnt" not to use caustic soda goes out and burns the crap out of themselves with the Draino they bought, and didn't read the label properly.

While many brewers do not fully understand <caustic soda/electricity/gas/whatever dangerous thing we're using this week>, almost all of us are bright enough to learn about the tools at our disposal, and make our own decisions based on the facts.

It's fine to warn about the hazards of certain techniques, to provide links to information about those techniques or hazards, or to explain why you do or do not use that technique, but blanket statements (like the one Domonsura picked up on, perhaps with a bit much vigour ), don't really help much.