Poll- Do You Double Batch Sparge

[Tony]

I used to run off very slow but then after listening to the Podcast http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/1293525 I started to run off flat out and it made no diff. Saves heaps of time too. A nice slow run off when fly sparging is essential but not with batch

I only do one batch sparge.

I fiund my initial runnings from the mash are usually around 1.080 and once i drain, fill the tun with hot water again, i get about 1.030 with the sparge.

This gives me between 75 to 80% efficiency.

I top up with plain water.

If i batched again can you imagine the tanin extraction. I dont even want to hink about it.

I think its system dependent. I have the capacity to do a single sparge and it works so why waste time doing 2

All your doing is washing the sugars out. I have found it actually works better if i do one big fluid sparge with lots of water so the grain can miz freely and the sugars come out no worries.

As said above, once the sugars are washed out of solution in a batch sparge, speed is not a factor with efficiency.

a slow runn off will stop compaction of the bed and will stop channelling arount the sides of the mash which could help efficiency too.

cheers

 

[browndog]

I drain the tun then sparge twice per Beersmiths recommendations, it is easy as and I get 80% plus.


cheers

Browndog

 

[matti]

If i batched again can you imagine the tanin extraction. I dont even want to hink about it.

Misinterpreted the poll... again :blink:
Couldn't agrer more Tony about tannis.... unless you adjust your sparge water and do brix or S.G. read of run off.
Should have voted for double run off but single sparge :huh:
Still confused...

 

[Tony]

Misinterpreted the poll... again :blink:
Couldn't agrer more Tony about tannis.... unless you adjust your sparge water and do brix or S.G. read of run off.
Should have voted for double run off but single sparge :huh:
Still confused...

double run off but single sparge

:blink:

I think i know where your comming from

I only do one BIG batrch sparge at a low gravity. I could do 2 but it would have the same result but that would take longer. I have the room for a single sparge so i do it

i take it double runn off single sparge as 2 x runnoffs..... i mash one batch sparge. ?

cheers

 

[matti]

mash out 10 min-> then run off
Add more water at 77ish and mix-allow the grains to settle little bit then
second run off stuck-> sparge add/or floating mash.
bring onb the false bottom and fly/continues sparge h34r:

 

[Tony]

whats the stress dude

thats what i do from the sounds of it..... works prefect

you sound imbaddesed ??????

cheers

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Tony,

Don't agree with you about the tannins. Never had a problem with it when I do an additional "drain" step to you. I've checked the ph on the final runnings a number of occasions and its always been below 6, so no problem as far as I can see.

Like I said, I mainly do it because I don't have the room to do it in 2 "drain" steps, but anyone who has to do three like me shouldn't freak out about tannin extraction. Its most likely not going to be a problem.

I run off slowly for a little bit to set the grain bed and avoid compaction and a stuck sparge, but then crank it up to as fast as it will go. I don't really think channeling makes any difference in a batch sparge... but what the hell, for the want of a couple of minutes, it cant hurt to avoid it if you can.

Cheers

Thirsty

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Single batch here

Sparge water @ 80*C

Get a bit above 75%

Cheers

 

[peas_and_corn]

I will be able to answer that question after sunday!

 

[argon]

Bumping a necro-thread... but you know don't want to get flamed by some douche for not using the search function appropriately h34r:

So i don't often do repeat batches, never done one since going 3V and employing sparging (of course). So there was some particularly interesting results in regards to sparging, when i did version 2 of an IPA i quite liked Blackbeard's Delight. I hadn't planned on brewing so hadn't printed a brew sheet, just used the one i had from last time, which i keep in a folder in the brewhouse.

Now i keep pretty good notes on the sheets and noted that it said to do a single batch sparge of about 24L. I thought that was odd at the time, as i usually do 2 equal batch sparges. I did the single anyway and missed my target pre-boil gravity by 4 points... strange i thought, as the rest was obviously identical. No really big deal anyway... ended up 2 points under at end of boil 1057 vs 1059... so no disaster.

So after reading some more notes i keep on the computer... i had in fact done a double sparge on version 1 and hit my expected gravity spot on.

It looks like after a bit more reading of Braukaiser... specifically Batch Sparging Analysis 2 equal sparges seems to be the best balance of time/effort vs extraction efficiency.

I particluarly like this graph as an explanation of what's going on;

After a bit of back tracking, i found that version 1 of this recipe was my first with Beersmith 2 and i hadn't adjusted the mash profile to include the 2 sparges. And now thinking back i remember that i had just adjusted on the fly. Thought my notes were good... will have to be more diligent in the future.

 

[bum]

Thanks for that, Argon. I recently realised that the reason I double batch sparge was simply because that's pretty much what I was told to do and was considering just going for a single on my next beer to see what the difference was. You've just saved me the trouble. Cheers.

 

[Lecterfan]

I don't have anywhere near the tech knowledge of many users of this forum (I am reading and trying though! - got the Ballarat Uni brewing canon to get through - most of it way out of my league [and realm of interest h34r: ] though), but these results are certainly really interesting.

I reduced my batch sparging over two brews recently due to fear of tannin extraction (from some Vicbrew feedback), but my efficiency seriously bit the dust. After some more reading about mash ph, over sparging (getting runnings down equal to or less than 1.010ish for eg), etc. I have re-formulated beersmith 2 with my set up and am happy to say my 'calibrate pale ale' went better than expected yesterday going back to a double batch sparge but with more considered water volumes (and a few other considerations). Now rather than aiming for super efficiency I have found a nice balance...yesterday came in at %77 pretty easily (recipe done at %70 due to paranoia), and will aim midway from now on at about %74 for recipe formulation.

Thanks for the graph, I should maybe spend some time with Braukaiser over summer...



Also:

Bumping a necro-thread... but you know don't want to get flamed by some douche for not using the search function appropriately h34r:

:lol: :beer:

 

[WarmBeer]

Comes down to "how much do I value my time?"

I usually double-batch sparge, but it adds around 15 mins, by the time I add more water, stir, wait a couple of minutes, then recirculate.

So the trade-off is, spend 15 minutes to get that additional 2-5 gravity points, or spend $2 on additional grain to achieve the same end result...

 

[stux]

Basically in the first run off you leave behind a percentage of sugars equal to the real absorption of your grain divided by total mash liquor (which includes extract)

For the next sparge you get a percentage of the remaining sugars equal to your sparge water divided by real absorption + sparge water

And that repeats for each sparge very quickly leading to diminishing returns

 

[argon]

Comes down to "how much do I value my time?"

I usually double-batch sparge, but it adds around 15 mins, by the time I add more water, stir, wait a couple of minutes, then recirculate.

So the trade-off is, spend 15 minutes to get that additional 2-5 gravity points, or spend $2 on additional grain to achieve the same end result...

I think that's an interesting take on it actually... if i ever feel i want to knock out a batch quickly... i'll just adjust my efficiency down thereby bumping up the base malt and do a single batch sparge... allows some nice flexibility

 

[mje1980]

Hmmm, very interesting. I've started doing step mashes, and when i do, i end up doing a single sparge, as opposed to my usual double,by the time i add all the boiling water. I have noticed a slight jump in eff when doing it this way. In theory, im losing some eff slightly by doing a single sparge, but the eff jump due to step mashing may be enough to overcome that. Interesting either way.

 

[mika]

And just to prove there's always an exception to the rule, used to double batch sparge, then mixed it up with alternating single sparge and double sparge, efficiency moved up or down 1-2% within regular variation. Now I only Double sparge if I can't fit all the water into the tun.