Pilsner yeast

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Hi everybody!!

I've been just using 34/70 for years and years and have actually never tried anything else.. I used to be happy with it but the past year or so I've gotten a minute weird almost off taste I think is me disliking that particular strain so have just bought a couple liquid types (WLP850 Copenhagen lager and WLP833 German Bock)


My question is, are these clean lager yeast really that different? What are your experiences?

 

[razz]

I recently stopped using 34/70 Doc after quite a few years. I haven’t used liquid yeasts for many years due to the convenience of dry varieties and their increase in available strains. I have just kegged a German Pils and it is by far the best lager style that I have made for many years. This time I used the Lallemand Diamond Lager strain. I think I will keep using it for sometime to come.
And in summing up, it’s the vibe it’s Marbo. Yep, I think they are different.

 

[mje1980]

Hi everybody!!

I've been just using 34/70 for years and years and have actually never tried anything else.. I used to be happy with it but the past year or so I've gotten a minute weird almost off taste I think is me disliking that particular strain so have just bought a couple liquid types (WLP850 Copenhagen lager and WLP830 German Bock)


My question is, are these clean lager yeast really that different? What are your experiences?

The Copenhagen lager yeast throws a little sulphur but let it sit in the keg for two weeks and it’s very light crisp and clean

 

[Hangover68]

I've been using Fermentis S189 for lagers and pils.

 

[kadmium]

I use liquid being wlp czech budvar.

I did a 34/70 and did not enjoy it. Even the wife commented something was off without knowing.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well I've had my first lager done with the Copenhagen lager yeast sitting in the keg a month now and it's still quite cloudy.. never had a beer take this long to condition before. I can't yet comment because it's simply not ready yet. It finished at 1.006, my lowest fg ever.

Had the German Bock lager sitting two months now and it's great. Very, very similar to the old 34/70 but without that little something off about it. Despite the blurb saying it leans toward maltiness I don't note that at all. Finish is as normal

 

[yankinoz]

I've been using Fermentis S189 for lagers and pils.

When I made lagers, I used S189 in Helles, Oktoberfests and clones of old Czech/US brews called Prior and Prior Dark, loved it in those malty styles, but never tried it in a pilsner.

 

[MHB]

Dont forget Budvar W2000 and Czech Pilsner W2278 which I prefer for dark lagers.
Mark

 

[Black Devil Dog]

S189 is pretty much my house lager yeast. I've used it in nearly every lager style I've made - Pilsners, Helles, Dunkels, Euro style lagers, Aus lagers etc.
I really like it, it's clean, consistent and versatile. Floccs really quickly as well.

Ironically, I just pitched 34/70 into a lager today for a change.

 

[mynameisrodney]

I recently stopped using 34/70 Doc after quite a few years. I haven’t used liquid yeasts for many years due to the convenience of dry varieties and their increase in available strains. I have just kegged a German Pils and it is by far the best lager style that I have made for many years. This time I used the Lallemand Diamond Lager strain. I think I will keep using it for sometime to come.
And in summing up, it’s the vibe it’s Marbo. Yep, I think they are different.

Glad to hear, I just bought a few packs of this but haven't tried it yet. Will be doing shortly.

 

[Ian Smith]

I recently bought some 34/70, not yet tried it. I do use S189 - love it, S-23 - love it, Just discovered Kveik - WOW, and S-04 - does a nice job. Have played with several others but these are my regulars.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I actually never noted a difference between S23 and 34/70 despite Fermentis stating it was a "fruity" ester yeast. From memory Brulosophy did an experiment on the two as well. Never tried S189 but here's an article on the two if anyone might be interested Yeast Comparison: Saflager W-34/70 vs. Saflager S-189 | exBEERiment Results!

And the 34/70 Vs S23 I've just found again too Yeast Comparison: Saflager W-34/70 vs. Saflager S-23 | exBEERiment Results!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well I've done three lagers with the Copenhagen lager yeast and all have finished at 1.006.. incredibly dry. Just got a VB clone on now to see how it turns out, will keep you guys posted. This one is all grain mind you, sucrose addition would have it finishing far too low (VB is 1.006 fwiw)

Here's the first one I did, almost crystal clear now, has taken two months to get to this point mind you. While I don't love the grain grist (first time trying melanoidon) I do like the finish. A nice yeast. Especially noting how "clean" this yeast actually is. I've probably never tasted a cleaner, more transparent beer. I think it would be a complete winner in any dry pilsner really. The latest two are being finned with gelatin so hopefully will drop clear alot sooner

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well that was quick.. kegged just 1 week ago using gelatin this CUB type lager is pretty much crystal clear already

While I don't have a VB on hand to compare I'd have to say it's going to be pretty damn spot-on. Right now before even lagering it's very clean, both taste and aroma. I just get that "beery" smell the magaswill lagers are renowned for along with a crisp malt profile. Just a real easy drinking beer really. I'll have to grab a Vic sometime before the kegs out and report back

Cheers all

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well I managed to pick up an iconic VB "long neck" Yes, very patriotic of me I know.

Tasting side-by-side yields pretty stellar results really. First, despite me thinking my version was crystal clear already it's not quite (VB left of pic) though is only about three weeks young.

Aroma: I have no idea how old the long neck might be but to me tastes a bit old. It has that sweeter grainy taste. Mine isn't quite as "refined" due to that alone but I'd have to assume that given a few months sitting warm out the back of a bottle shop they'd likely become almost indistinguishable.. it's that close.

The long neck has zero hop presence, taste or aroma which is a telltale sign of an older beer to me it's just a hard one to compare really but like I said, it's pretty damn close. Uncle Nat probably wouldn't bat an eyelid switching between the two ✌

 

[MHB]

Couple of things that might help you get a little closer.
As far as I know VB has no hops, all Iso-Hop extract to 16-18IBU, added post fermentation and lagering. CUB have a huge CO2 extraction plant on site and when the new seasons hops arrive they work like mad things to get the whole year’s supply of Alpha into storage. Hey why waste good Alpha by putting hops into the kettle, you will get less than 40% conversion. You lose more during the ferment and more again during lagering, better to get total conversion and just dose the beer downstream of all that wasteful brewing stuff.

The grainy sweet flavour -well if you use 20% or so sugar then mash hotter to keep the FG up should see you heading in that direction. I suspect they brew slightly over gravity; around 1.065 OG would be close. The absence of hops and some sucrose along with the higher OG will change the way the yeast behaves and the taste somewhat.
I to would use one of the Carlsberg yeasts, there is a lot of shared history between the two breweries.

Getting real commercial brightness can be hard at home. Most commercial beers are either Centrifuged (more and more these days) or are filtered through Diatomaceous earth (another good place to lose some IBU's), after a very cold Lager, just fractionally above the point where ice forms around -1.5oC (sometimes after ice forms in the case of beers like Carlton Cold).
Gelatine isn’t the best option for settling cold trub, Silica Xerogel or a blend of that and PVPP added to the lagering tank will get you close.

Fair to say VB is a long way from being my favourite beer! But (as usual) the brewers who make it are very good at what they do and are highly skilled at their craft - the meggers are still outselling the whole craft industry close to 10:1 so fair to give them the respect they deserve and occasionally we can learn a lot from big brewers.
Mark