Pilsener Kit And Ale Yeast?

[Fingerlickin_B]

Ok, I've just scored an ESB Czech Pilsener 3 litre kit.

I can't let it go to waste, but at the same time I can't keep the temps in my fermenting box cold enough during summer (no, I can't use the bathtub and there is no room for storage boxes full of ice, water and a fermenter).

Although I know it won't taste anything like a pilsener, but will it taste ok if I use the only other real option...a good ale yeast?

PZ.

 

[Duff]

Try a Kolsch yeast like WLP029. While a Kolsch may have differing flavouring hops, the base malts are pretty much the same, ie. Pils & Wheat. If you can't find the Kolsch, then something that is clean and highlights the hop flavour, such as WLP001 California Ale.

Cheers.

 

[DrewCarey82]

Hmmmmm I was going to go some of those ESB kits as I found Gerard to be great when he delivered so supplies but what temp do the kits need to be kept @ with ur Coopers, Morgans, Brewcrafts Ect they need a 20-28 degrees range, I cant get lower then 24 though.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

24 is great for ales...that's pretty much as low as I can go during summer too

PZ.

 

[Lindsay Dive]

What I would do is purchase either Whitelabs WLP810 San Francisco Lager Yeast or Wyeast 2112 California Lager Yeast, pitch with either of these yeasts and keep your fermenter in the coldest area of your home and wrap the fermenter with a large damp towel.
You won't be disappointed with the result.
These are genuine lager yeasts that work well at a temperature up to 18 degrees.

 

[jimmyjack]

I agree with Lindsay. also here is some more info

Lagers at Room Temperature
Lager yeasts are commonly called bottom- or cold-fermenting. They make clean, malt-accentuating beer at cold temperatures. Clean simply means the beer tastes like the products from which it was made, viz barley malt and hops. Ales are not clean in this sense because they have fruity flavors. A long-standing homebrewing myth is that you cannot make good beer with lager yeasts at ale (warm) temperatures. Most lager yeasts do in fact make very good beer when used at ale temperatures. It may be argued, however, that such beers have more 'ale' character in that they will have fruitier tones than a traditional cold-fermented lager. Anchor Steam is an example of a commercial lager fermented at ale temperatures.

"If I want to make a lager in the summer in Texas and must ferment at room temperature, should I use a lager yeast or an ale yeast?"
I asked this question of a panel of yeast experts (Dave Logsden of Wyeast, Chris White of White Labs, Mary Beth Raines-Casselman, and John Maier of Rogue) and every one gave the same answer, "Use the lager yeast." No ifs, no buts, no hesitation. Amongst homebrew shops, St. Pat's has been almost single-handedly conveying this advice for the past 10 years, although some progressive shops have now followed suit.




Cheers JJ

 

[pint of lager]

24 is not great for ales.

Brewing at 24 leaves you open to extra esters and fusels. How about brewing more beers in the cooler months of the year to build your stocks up, rather than battling against the elements. You could then put your pilsner kit aside and brew that next winter.

20-22 is the preferred range for standard ale yeasts as supplied by kit manufacturers, not the misleading 20-28 range that is often on the tins.

The stick on thermometer is a guide only, and is reading a combination of your ambient air temperature and the wall of the fermneter. Often the brew is actually a few degrees higher than the temperature shown on the stickon thermometer.

 

[OCC]

try that white labs wlp 810 san francisco lager yeast, i did it with a fresh wort kit 3 weeks ago and could'nt get the temp down lower than 24 c and it come out great kegged it and it's drinkin fine.
PZ

 

[DrewCarey82]

24 is not great for ales.

Brewing at 24 leaves you open to extra esters and fusels. How about brewing more beers in the cooler months of the year to build your stocks up, rather than battling against the elements. You could then put your pilsner kit aside and brew that next winter.

20-22 is the preferred range for standard ale yeasts as supplied by kit manufacturers, not the misleading 20-28 range that is often on the tins.

The stick on thermometer is a guide only, and is reading a combination of your ambient air temperature and the wall of the fermneter. Often the brew is actually a few degrees higher than the temperature shown on the stickon thermometer.

[post="91862"][/post]​

I beg to differ for KITS it is okay, I've brewed about 10 so far and they've all gone great and have a few mates that have done the same.

For mash its probably a bit different or if you use different yeasts as well.

Not being a smart arse its just that theres plenty of posts like this that are likely to be very misleading for kit brewers.

 

[Lindsay Dive]

24 is not great for ales.

Brewing at 24 leaves you open to extra esters and fusels. How about brewing more beers in the cooler months of the year to build your stocks up, rather than battling against the elements. You could then put your pilsner kit aside and brew that next winter.

20-22 is the preferred range for standard ale yeasts as supplied by kit manufacturers, not the misleading 20-28 range that is often on the tins.

The stick on thermometer is a guide only, and is reading a combination of your ambient air temperature and the wall of the fermneter. Often the brew is actually a few degrees higher than the temperature shown on the stickon thermometer.

[post="91862"][/post]​

I beg to differ for KITS it is okay, I've brewed about 10 so far and they've all gone great and have a few mates that have done the same.

For mash its probably a bit different or if you use different yeasts as well.

Not being a smart arse its just that theres plenty of posts like this that are likely to be very misleading for kit brewers.

[post="91873"][/post]​

I must say that Judges at a competition will pick the kit brews that have been brewed at the higher temperatures like you wouldn't beleive.
Now, having said that, there are some kit brewers who brew at realistic temperatures (both Ale and Lagers) and score well into the 40's.
I've witnessed it many times.
DrewCarey82, may I suggest you drop your temps and it won't belong before the mates follow!!

 

[nonicman]

Drew, POL's advice is spot on. You may well brew a drinkable beer above 22C, however if you use the same ingredients and fermented at 18-22 (depending on the yeast used) the beer would have less or no undesirable products that bring a brew down from being it's best (not undrinkable just not the best you could achieve.).

Far from misleading, getting the right fermentation temps will give the biggest improvement to a kit in my limited experience.

 

[PostModern]

24 is not great for ales.

Brewing at 24 leaves you open to extra esters and fusels. How about brewing more beers in the cooler months of the year to build your stocks up, rather than battling against the elements. You could then put your pilsner kit aside and brew that next winter.

20-22 is the preferred range for standard ale yeasts as supplied by kit manufacturers, not the misleading 20-28 range that is often on the tins.

The stick on thermometer is a guide only, and is reading a combination of your ambient air temperature and the wall of the fermneter. Often the brew is actually a few degrees higher than the temperature shown on the stickon thermometer.

[post="91862"][/post]​

I beg to differ for KITS it is okay, I've brewed about 10 so far and they've all gone great and have a few mates that have done the same.

For mash its probably a bit different or if you use different yeasts as well.

Not being a smart arse its just that theres plenty of posts like this that are likely to be very misleading for kit brewers.

[post="91873"][/post]​

Not being a smartarse either, nor meaning any disrespect, but there are probably a lot of kit brewers that have brewed 10 kits, been happy with all of them, yet never actually brewed a good beer.

I was like you when I started, you should see the light that comes on once you keep that temperature controlled in a suitable range. I brew partial mashes and the odd kit. I have brewed about 60-70 batches so far. Telling new brewers that beer tasting like fruity nail polish remover is OK, is much more misleading than telling them what appropriate temperatures are.

 

[pint of lager]

20-22 is ideal for your kit ale yeasts.

24 is only okay if that is the best you can do. There have been many excellent cheap methods of basic temperature control talked about. Lindsay outlined some methods. A chinese food container iceblock sitting on top of your fermenter with a wet towel, the whole lot sitting in a tub so that water doesn't go everywhere will drop your temp by a few degrees, is cheap and very easy to do. A wet towel draped over the fermenter with a fan pointed at it will work.

Yeast is the engine room of the brewing process. At higher than ideal temperatures, different esters are produced and more fusel alcohols are produced.

Depending on your level of experience you will notice these factors more. Join a club and do some more tasting. Broaden your knowledge and attend judging at a competition. Ask competition winning kit brewers what temperature they brew at. This applies equally to basic kit and kilo and to the best mash brewers, they keep talking to people, researching and reading.

Mash brewers do pay more attention to temperature control as they realise this is a key area to the end result, no matter what yeast they are using, be it dry or liquid. Extract brewers will tell you the same thing.

The misleading information is on the tin saying that 20-28 is a suitable range.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Thanks for the yeast info guys

As for the fermentation temperature issue that has arisen in this thread...I absolutely loved most of the ales I have churned out over the last six months or so and all have been fermented at around the 23-24 degree mark...maybe they would be even better if it dropped a degree or two, but I don't care...the stuff tastes great to me :chug:

Oh, and no...I don't trust the tin, I trust my tastebuds

As for stockpiling for summer, not possible...I'm supporting a serious addiction here h34r:

PZ.

 

[Mr Bond]

Thanks for the yeast info guys

As for the fermentation temperature issue that has arisen in this thread...I absolutely loved most of the ales I have churned out over the last six months or so and all have been fermented at around the 23-24 degree mark...maybe they would be even better if it dropped a degree or two, but I don't care...the stuff tastes great to me :chug:

Oh, and no...I don't trust the tin, I trust my tastebuds

As for stockpiling for summer, not possible...I'm supporting a serious addiction here h34r:

PZ.

[post="91943"][/post]​

If you can get it down to 18 you will taste a marked difference :
I get very distressed if my ales get over 20 nowadays,,Way to fruity and brings out the extract twang if you do K+K or extract brew.
I would have thought that canberra would be the perfect place to maintain cooler temps in a wort,especially in winter.

And yes you are right stockpiling is hard with a thirst :chug:

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

I like the fruitiness my ales deliver

They don't give me a headache in the morning, so one can only assume any fussel alcohol produced must be very slight.

Maybe I should shut up...I don't want my beer to appear gay-fruity :lol:

PZ.

 

[Murray]

I ferment intentionally at 24C sometimes, but only with yeast I know can handle it and only for specific flavours. Generic kit yeast in generic kit beer shouldn't be fermented so hot.

 

[DrewCarey82]

Hmmmmmmmm, I dont really think I can get temp control going @ the moment but I shall definately have to go hardcore in winter by the sounds of it.

 

[mredgy]

My garage (brew room) is under a block of units, and as such the ambient temp in there is always roughly 20c, I also have a converted chest freezer that I keep around 10-12c. Thus I always have a pils/lager and an ale going at the same time brewed on alternate weekends.
To do my diacetyl rest on the pils/lagers, I just switch off the freezer and open the lid for 3 days, before racking to secondary, then lid down and frezzer on again. I have a variable thermostat, so I can also bring it slowly down to about 2c for CC.

 

[Steve]

Fingerlickin - I did the ESB Czech Pilsener about a month ago with Safale SO4 in an ice bath which kept temps at 20 deg. Its great! Its part of an experiment I did. I did the exact same brew straight after it with Saflager in the fridge at 10 deg, diacetyl rest, cold conditioned etc etc for 3 weeks. Just want to see the difference.
Cheers
Steve