Ph Meter/strips

[Kroozy]

Ok, so my sparge runnings taste like tea, so it must be time to sort out the pH.

I can't make up my mind between getting a pH meter or going with the test strips.
Anyone got any suggestions on what to use.
Brand, price & where you got yours would be great too.

 

[AndrewQLD]

It might not be your mash PH causing your problem, oversparging (below 1.010) can lead to tannin extraction giving you the symptoms you describe.

I bought my digital PH meter from Dick Smith about 18mths ago for $99.00. At the time I could not get PH test strips in the range I was looking for. I have to say that I very rarely use it now and used it initially only once or twice to confirm my PH levels, they don't really change from brew to brew.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[pint of lager]

Make sure when testing your last runnings for sg, that the sample of wort is at your hydrometer test temperature.

The adjustment for temperature tables are very inaccurate.

Crash cool your wort sample in a plastic bag in an ice bath to the correct temperature. The temperature your hydrometer is rated for should be written on the paper scale somewhere. If it is not, use 20 degrees C.

Tasting your last runnings is also an interesting experiment. Run a little into a coffee cup (large thermal mass will chill the wort sample down quickly) and taste it.

 

[pint of lager]

My pH Checker meter came from Farnell's which is a very large supplier to trade organistations. The paper catalogue is three volumes thick, about the same width as Sydney white pages. They also add a handling fee which makes the item more expensive.

Dick Smith's sell them. They come for sale on ebay, as do test strips.

Calibration solution, I buy from Grain and Grape as small sachets.

 

[Tseay]

Is this what you are experiencing ?:

http://www.byo.com/mrwizard/1366.html

 

[thunderleg]

Ebay!

Digital pH meter made somewhere in Eastern Europe. About $35 delivered. Works great. Came with a bottle of pH7.0 water and a little adjusting screwdriver for calibration.

Edit: Actually made in Mauritius by Hanna Instrument of Italy.

 

[cubbie]

It might not be your mash PH causing your problem, oversparging (below 1.010) can lead to tannin extraction giving you the symptoms you describe.

[post="118023"][/post]​

Does this apply if you are batch sparging (being that I calculate my sparge water to meet my final volume)? If so do you then just top up the kettle to meet your volumes or just adjust your hops as required.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Cubbie, it would be extremely difficult to oversparge if you batch sparge, in fact I can't see how it would be possible because you are diluting the grains rather than washing them.
Cheers
Andrew

 

[cubbie]

Cheers.

 

[bradmcm]

It might not be your mash PH causing your problem, oversparging (below 1.010) can lead to tannin extraction giving you the symptoms you describe.
Cheers
Andrew

[post="118023"][/post]​

Tannin extraction occurs in low gravity runoffs when the mash pH rises dramatically. This occurs when you haven't adjusted/buffered the sparge liquor.
Tannin extraction IS down to pH levels.
I have extracted successfully down to 2 Plato.

 

[AndrewQLD]

It might not be your mash PH causing your problem, oversparging (below 1.010) can lead to tannin extraction giving you the symptoms you describe.
Cheers
Andrew

[post="118023"][/post]​

Tannin extraction occurs in low gravity runoffs when the mash pH rises dramatically. This occurs when you haven't adjusted/buffered the sparge liquor.
Tannin extraction IS down to pH levels.
I have extracted successfully down to 2 Plato.

[post="118115"][/post]​

And that is the point I was making, Oversparging causes your mash PH to rise causing tanin extraction, even if your mash is at 5.2 ph originally, if you extract down to below 1.010 you risk an increase in ph regardless of your initial ph levels.
Maybe I wasn't being very clear :blink:
And since 2 plato equates 1.008 I hardly would call that pushing the boundaries :lol:

Cheers
Andrew

 

[sosman]

I have a pH meter - personally I wouldn't bother buying one. Wort is a really unfriendly environment for pH electrodes (lots of protein). Also lots of people don't bother to buy (and use) the calibration fluid, leaving a big question mark over any measurements you do make.

 

[Kroozy]

Yes I have suspected that these pH meters may not be all that relaible over time and are difficult to look after.
Ok so how do you make sure that your pH is correct then?
Do you just go from your water profile? or from experience? or not worry about it?

Also Brewsta is a very useful tool, well done Sosman!

 

[Darren]

Go the strips.

cheers
Darren

 

[bradmcm]

Ah yes, I see what you meant now Andrew, and you are right.
Depending on your sparge liquor composition the amount of pH
increase is variable - if you have lots of calcium and little bicarbonate - then you might only get an increase of 0.2 or so.
Still, no matter what the wort you will get to a point where all the buffering materials have gone and then all of a sudden the pH will rise and you will get phosphates, silicas, tannins etc. all coming through at once. All poor quality crap.

2P (1.008) or 1.010 is always a nice place to stop.


Back on track, for home use - as Darren said, pH strips are the go. Very cheap and for what you want, accurate enough.
Merck are the most common brand and chemical supply houses should be able to help. Ideally, get the 4.0-7.0 range strips.

 

[Doc]

I have a whole bunch of strips around somewhere.
Bought them in the US, but only ever used them for the first few brews after I got them. After that I just knew that I was in the range, and have never had a problem that I could attibute to pH levels.
Send me your postal addy and I'll see if I can dig them up and send you a few to try.

Beers,
Doc

Edit. I'll have to retract that offer. Just realised that without the calibration strip you'll be none the wiser, and I only have one of those. Sorry.

 

[Kroozy]

So after all the great advice I went looking for some pH strips but couldn't find them anywhere. But today I happened to go to the Galleria - Morley, Perth and opposite is Accent Hydroponics. Thought I would see if they had the pH strips but they didn't, but they had a pH meter for $40. The very helpful salesman said they sell heaps of them and they would be fine for what I wanted it for so long as the electrode was rinsed with water after use. He also suggested that they work better and for longer if you use them regularly and don't allow the electrode to dry out. So I was sold.

This is the meter
http://www.hannainst.com/products/testers/...209610X%20Champ

 

[bugwan]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread - it's hard to search for "pH" when the minimum search length is 3 letters! <_<

I've been to quite a few brew demos by Riggers at Grain & Grape, the latest of which was last Saturday. It's good to see an experienced brewer at work...

His mantra is that temp and pH are the two, single most important factors in brewing. I've never measured brewing water or mash pH and I'm interested in how strict other brewers are on this.
Riggers said it is critical that mash water be acidic before mashing (about 5.5). Using Melbourne water, I presume mine's pretty neutral (around 7) - do you agree with his sentiments??

 

[Stuster]

He is right that water chemistry is important, but it's certainly not a good idea to change the water pH in such a way. For more info on why, see how to brew

You would think that the pH of the water is important but actually it is not. It is the pH of the mash that is important, and that number is dependent on all of the ions we have been discussing. In fact, the ion concentrations are not relevant by themselves and it is not until the water is combined with a specific grain bill that the overall pH is determined, and it is that pH which affects the activity of the mash enzymes and the propensity for the extraction of astringent tannins from the grain husks.

Adjust based on your water composition. Acidifying to 5.5 before you start will be the wrong amount with almost all waters and grain bills. Palmer has a great spreadsheet here that will help you work out what salts or acids to add.

 

[bugwan]

He is right that water chemistry is important, but it's certainly not a good idea to change the water pH in such a way. For more info on why, see how to brew

Thanks Stuster - that's about the only chapter I hadn't read...!

Not a bad read, and answers all my questions of course.