Pbw`

[yardy]

I give all my equipement a soak in it Dave. Great product.

Andrew

Cheers mate :icon_cheers:

 

[Batz]

OK OK I'll try the stuff,my kettles a mess,but I sort of like it that way,bit like my old billy.

Show us your scroungy kettle thread?

Batz

 

[Tony]

It wont be as good as my "show us your airlock grommet" thread.

That one went like a rocket.

ITs good stuff Batz. I too wasnt worried about the brown layer on everything but i was amazed at how much better the kettle smelt after a soak. The SS was shiny and it didnt have that dank earthy smell about it

cheers

 

[yardy]

i should've taken a before pic as well but anyhoo...

no beer-stone here :icon_chickcheers:

 

[Tony]

Shit Yardy, do you want me to send you the install for some image resizing software?

looks shiny like mine

cheers

 

[yardy]

if you like, bit big is it ?

 

[Jye]

OK OK I'll try the stuff,my kettles a mess,but I sort of like it that way,bit like my old billy.

Show us your scroungy kettle thread?

Batz

Check this out Batz LINK Not exactly a before and after but you get the idea.

 

[taylor-madeak]

PBW is a percarbonate cleaner that's been kicked up with some sodium metasilicate. I don't know if you guys can get it down under, but here stateside there is a product available in most stores called "Oxyclean" along with its generic variants. Add an equal amount of "phosphate-free" TSP substitute (aka sodium metasilicate) and you've just made yourself some PBW for something like half the price that your LHBS wants for the real thing.

This stuff is at its most effective when hot, by the way. To clean my keggle at the end of my brewing season, I add a couple scoops of my homemade PBW and fill the vessel with about 12 gallons of cold water. Then I put the burner to it until it starts to steam, after which I kill the heat and wait 30 minutes. At the end of that time I just open the valve and drain the keggle, cleaning out my valve and hose barb at the same time. Follow that with a thorough rinsing and my keggle is ready to be stored for another winter. B)

 

[Tony]

:lol: Stored for the winter........ i love it.

I brew like mad during the winter when its cool enough in my garage to ferment without a fridge.

cheers

 

[ausdb]

PBW is a percarbonate cleaner that's been kicked up with some sodium metasilicate. I don't know if you guys can get it down under, but here stateside there is a product available in most stores called "Oxyclean" along with its generic variants. Add an equal amount of "phosphate-free" TSP substitute (aka sodium metasilicate) and you've just made yourself some PBW for something like half the price that your LHBS wants for the real thing.

Excellent advice, looks like our brewclub might be doing a bulkbuy of sodium metasilicate soon

 

[goatherder]

The guy from 5 star at ANHC mentioned that PBW had about 5 ingredients, one of which was sodium percarbonate. He also mentioned a surfactant and a chelation agent as being two of them. Perhaps sodium metasilicate is one of the others, but it may not be the only one.

 

[schooey]

The guy from 5 star at ANHC mentioned that PBW had about 5 ingredients, one of which was sodium percarbonate. He also mentioned a surfactant and a chelation agent as being two of them. Perhaps sodium metasilicate is one of the others, but it may not be the only one.

It wouldn't be like a retailer to tell you that it's impossible to mimic his product now either, would it? I don't see the use of a surfactant in this product as such a great or important property of it? But maybe there's an industrial chemist or the guy from 5 star can explain why? From my (admittedly limited) knowledge, surfactants are compounds that make up either a foaming agent, an emulsifier or a dispersant. I can't see how a foaming agent is of any use in sanitizing a brewery, or for that matter an emulsifier. So unless the surfactant in PBW is a dispersant that is the secret in removing the demon brown beerstone and carrying it away suspended in the mix, I'd be interested to find out it's main purpose

 

[dr K]

My understanding of Star San PBW is that it is a washing agent for a brewery (DOH).
I have used it , it works OK, you do need hot water and you do need to scrub (or if you have soaked wipe). So its mainly nappi-san...plus a bit, buts those little bits (including surfactants) make it a an easy to use, reliable and not that expensive (if you do a bulk clean of all your gear with the one bag full).
I am impressed and for the relatively small cost could not be bothered with "brewing my own".

K

 

[Batz]

It's here

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/products.asp?id=2

But if you want to know exactly wants in it just ask,it's the law they have to tell you.

Batz

 

[goatherder]

It wouldn't be like a retailer to tell you that it's impossible to mimic his product now either, would it? I don't see the use of a surfactant in this product as such a great or important property of it? But maybe there's an industrial chemist or the guy from 5 star can explain why? From my (admittedly limited) knowledge, surfactants are compounds that make up either a foaming agent, an emulsifier or a dispersant. I can't see how a foaming agent is of any use in sanitizing a brewery, or for that matter an emulsifier. So unless the surfactant in PBW is a dispersant that is the secret in removing the demon brown beerstone and carrying it away suspended in the mix, I'd be interested to find out it's main purpose

Fair call schooey. He seemed quite genuine on the day. I asked him how plain percarbonate compared to something like PBW. He said that percarbonate works just fine, but PBW has a few features that improve on it. Namely, the surfactant which lowers the surface tension of the solution to allow it to penetrate very small imperfections in the surface of the vessel, chelation agent to deal with scale forming minerals and some other additives which raise the pH giving better performance against organics. We discussed a bit about how plain percarbonate doesn't dissolve well in cold water, apparently PBW is better at this. He said you will get good results from just percarbonate but it may take longer to work as well or you may need higher concentrations.

 

[schooey]

It's here

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/products.asp?id=2

But if you want to know exactly wants in it just ask,it's the law they have to tell you.

Batz

It's not quite that easy... They have to list hazardous materials etc in their MSDS, but they don't have to tell you exactly what, and in what concentration. The great big yank oil company I work for wouldn't be too happy if they had to part with the proprietary formulations of some of the differential products in the market

 

[Tony]

Hey.......... just mix some Bi-Lo oil with a bit of E10 to get Mobil 1 dont we?

thats what i do

for the small price and the 2 or 3 times a year i will use it....... bugger mixing my own and hoping its right.

This stuff did such an impessive job, im going to do my other kettle soon and chuck in all my bake ware as well!

Its like oven cleaner but not as nasty or smelly.

Awsome

cheers

 

[taylor-madeak]

Stored for the winter........ i love it.

I brew like mad during the winter when its cool enough in my garage to ferment without a fridge.

Unfortunately, I don't have a garage. I also have to boil outside because I'm an AG brewer, which makes a wort chiller necessary. That's where Alaska winters really hit me: my garden hoses are frozen! Sooo, I restrict my beer brewing to summer and in the winter I make sake. Sake keeps me indoors. :lol:

The guy from 5 star at ANHC mentioned that PBW had about 5 ingredients, one of which was sodium percarbonate. He also mentioned a surfactant and a chelation agent as being two of them. Perhaps sodium metasilicate is one of the others, but it may not be the only one.

Judging on the way it foams, OxyClean contains surfactants of its own, along with perfumes, chlorine, etc. You can get "OxyClean FREE" which doesn't contain perfumes or chlorine, but it still has the percarbonate and surfactants that make the product useful.

The "chelation agent" is sodium metasilicate. It also significantly raises the pH when dissolved in water.

I am impressed and for the relatively small cost could not be bothered with "brewing my own".

*shrug* Nobody says you have to. I just mentioned it because my wife always has a big box of OxyClean around that she uses as a laundry detergent adjunct in place of bleach. So it's actually cheaper for me to just pop down to the hardware store and pick up some sodium metasilicate and mix up my own PBW than to pay what my LHBS wants for Five Star's product.

By the way, this stuff is the best thing you can ever use to remove beer labels from bottles. A 20 minute soak in hot PBW and most labels peel right off. Any residual glue will wipe right off with a sponge or even just your thumb.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

He said you will get good results from just percarbonate but it may take longer to work as well or you may need higher concentrations

.

GH - gathererd same sorts of impressions from John too. This thread, plus a little bit of extra reading, tells me after the free samples are gone that sodium percarbonate (and bleach and vinegar) will remain my standard cleaner as I know it works and is relatively cheap. I'll buy in PBW as a special cleaning tool - as per our Alaskan friend, when I want to put the brewing equipment away for a few months or for annual "deep cleaning" of my kegs. Beauty of life is no one is forcing anyone to use something they don't want. Its great to have another option !

 

[domonsura]

Sodium Percarb will remain my standard cleaner - removes beerstone fine when used hot, cleans everything completely to my satisfaction - and doesn't have sodium met in it........

PBW works fine, there's no question there, I've used both and had pretty much the same results from both for all intensive purposes but when I had a look at the info for the ingredients (SODIUM METASILICATE specifically the "Main Risks & Target Organs" bit, I was no longer interested in using it.

Personally I prefer the comparitively more friendly Sodium Percarbonate (in my personal opinion)