Party Kegs

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Hey Guys,

thought i'd contribute to this thread with my party keg setup.

party_keg1.jpg

here's me quickly nocking it together ready for a party. gf decided to snap some pics.

party_keg2.jpg

inside.

had most of the stuff kicking around the shed the only thing i had to buy was the bin. u should have seen the look on the bunnings staff when i walked into the store with
a keg testing each and every bin / container to see which one would fit a corny nicely and this one does. 2 bags of ice, a corny and a sodastream / reg fit in there nice &
neatly. was knocked up minutes before i actually needed it.

Rob.
 
Hey guys,

I made a party keg from a 5l sprayer with soda stream etc and filled it with APA. Poured nicely, was completely wrapped with the whole setup. So I made another, 8L one and filled it with a belgian, but it only pours froth. Every beer is all head. It's pretty much identical. I went looking for a filter in the line somewhere, but nothing. I even used the hose and tap from the APA (once it was finished) and still all head.

Any ideas?

Cheers,
Wrenny
 
Hey Guys,

thought i'd contribute to this thread with my party keg setup.



here's me quickly nocking it together ready for a party. gf decided to snap some pics.

inside.

had most of the stuff kicking around the shed the only thing i had to buy was the bin. u should have seen the look on the bunnings staff when i walked into the store with
a keg testing each and every bin / container to see which one would fit a corny nicely and this one does. 2 bags of ice, a corny and a sodastream / reg fit in there nice &
neatly. was knocked up minutes before i actually needed it.

Rob.


I use basically the same thing - except with one of those darker round willow bins I seem to see everywhere since buying my own :p
 
Plastic Man that is one sexy looking piece of Alloy. Do you prime into bottles and fill the keg or do you prime in your keg itself? I hope that makes sense.
 
Plastic Man,
Do you know who the supplier is for the schrader valve? I'm currently trying to find a supplier for them, with limited luck so far.
 
billgill, get down to your nearest tyre showroom/fitter ...BobJane, Goodyear etc. You'll walk out with a chrome all-metal casing schrader for less than $5.
 
Plastic Man that is one sexy looking piece of Alloy. Do you prime into bottles and fill the keg or do you prime in your keg itself? I hope that makes sense.

65bellet - sorry for slow reply. I primed in the keg. Just treat the keg as one big bottle. Options are - bulk prime whole batch and then rack to keg/s & bottles, or bulk prime just the beer in the keg, or be lazy like I was and just throw in some carbonation caps. These worked fine.


Plastic Man,
Do you know who the supplier is for the schrader valve? I'm currently trying to find a supplier for them, with limited luck so far.

billgill - We buy them at work as part of a larger "end cap" fitting for air pressured cable. I have the name of the supplier of the end caps so will give them a bell to see where they get the schraeder valves from. As Jimmy points out you should be able to grab one from any of the specialist tyre shops - which is where I got my first one from, though I found the ones from work had a nice flat base and seemed easier to fit. I'll post details when I get them.

:beer:
 
I've put together a similar setup using the 5ltr, with a car valve to pump in gas.

What are you all using to get in CO2 via the car valve, other than sodastream, which seems a it excessive for me.

I tried a CO2 gizmo from a bike shop which had a shutoff valve included but once the cylinder was pierced a small leak saw the end of gas within about 10 minutes. I'm told now bike shop staff from all over that their not designed to hold gas once the cylinder is pierced.

Any ideas for what you are using, were it's available and how much would be much appreciated.
 
What are you all using to get in CO2 via the car valve, other than sodastream, which seems a it excessive for me.


Best deal I've picked up was an old Soda Stream from the tip shop for $2 with a half full gas cylinder.

Still sound a little excessive. <_<

Cheers FROGMAN.....
 
By a Soda Stream that's draggin around whole machine i guess, the other alternatives i've noticed are a regulator with adapter to a soda stream CO2 bottle. Your right $2 is not excessive but the size also becomes an inconvenience at times.
 
Chris S - my innovations brand bike gizmo seems to hold gas Ok - at least for over a couple of weeks. The cylinders are only $0.70c each anyway.
 
I think the choice of gas source depends on what you intend doing.

I bought a SodaStream setup including a MicroMatic regulator. That is because I figured the regulator would be useful later if I decided to get into real kegging and would hold its value in some meaningful way anyhoo... I anticipated that I would use enough gas that the tiny bulbs would not be economical.

I also figure that if you use more than a SodaStream cylinder full of gas a month, you might want to consider a big/real gas cylinder. Conversely, if you use the setup once per year and have no other use for it, the SodaStream thing is overkill. Clearly it depends on the entirety of your usage patterns and what you currently have, etc, etc.

I used the SodaStream cylinder and guts to carbonate PET bottles for a short while and decided that using unregulated gas was not for me. If you don't want to buy a regulator, the tyre inflator style of gas supply will be safer, if only because there is so much less gas in there to blow the thing up and take out your good eye and the wife's favourite cat...
 
Almost finished my party keg based on 8L Bunnings Aqua sprayer. My eventual plan is to naturally carbonate plus Sodastream dispenser. I've noticed a few posts in this thread commenting on the 25psi limit for that sprayer. By way of an experiment I inserted a 1mm (approx) washer in the safety valve and air-inflated the sprayer. The pressure held steady at 31psi. I repeated the exercise with a second washer and the sprayer held a steady pressure of 37psi. Here's a piccy.
valve.jpg
As I've no wish to further test the sprayer to destruction, particularly as its not yet seen a single brew, I'll stop while I'm ahead. But as a number of people are already up and running with party kegs I would now greatly appreciate some advice on the following:-

1. When filling a party keg with beer, how much headspace is ideally left?
2. After a 2-week wait for carbonation in the keg, what pressure is created for a typical brew?
3. What sort of pressures should I be looking at for dispensing ales and lagers.

Thanks in advance

Merrick
 
1. When filling a party keg with beer, how much headspace is ideally left?
In my smaller such kegs, I leave an inch or so. I force carb them using the 'Shake Like Buggery' method. If you're naturally carbing them, this is probably about right in my view.

2. After a 2-week wait for carbonation in the keg, what pressure is created for a typical brew?
Can't say, except that if you're priming to normal standards, the various tools such as BeerSmith would help.

3. What sort of pressures should I be looking at for dispensing ales and lagers.
I reckon that, unless you're looking to balance your system- which is a bit pointless in a party keg scenario, as little as it takes to get the beer out the tap.
 
Hey Guys,

thought i'd contribute to this thread with my party keg setup.

View attachment 17030

here's me quickly nocking it together ready for a party. gf decided to snap some pics.

View attachment 17031

inside.

had most of the stuff kicking around the shed the only thing i had to buy was the bin. u should have seen the look on the bunnings staff when i walked into the store with
a keg testing each and every bin / container to see which one would fit a corny nicely and this one does. 2 bags of ice, a corny and a sodastream / reg fit in there nice &
neatly. was knocked up minutes before i actually needed it.

Rob.

Good work Rob
 
Spillsmostofit, thanks for your input.

My question regarding pressures for ales and lagers was prompted by some comments in this thread similar to Geoffi's below.

Looks like the more expensive one will hold more pressure. Not a bad thing. As I noted earlier, the cheapies seem to hold enough pressure for a respectable APA or English ale, but maybe not a lager, Weizen or other gassier beer.

Given that I can now squeeze about 37psi in my 'keg', does it mean for lagers (for example) I can artificially increase the pressure (via Sodastream) over and above what would be created by natural carbonation? Or, does it suggest I can increase the bulk priming rate, thereby increasing the initial pressure in the 'keg'?

I realise the Sodastream setup will help delivery through the tap, but I'm not fully understanding the link between the initial 'keg' pressure and beer types. Or have I got it all wrong?

Merrick
 
The natural carbonation thing confuses the issue. Pretend it doest exist for a minute OK

There are two pressures you need to worry about in a keg, they serve two different purposes.

The simplest to consider is dispensing pressure, this is just how much force is behind the beer as it comes shooting out your tap, a reasonable amount of pressure for the amount of beer line you have, gives a sensible pour... too much pressure or too little length of beer line and it shoots out of there as mainly foam. You just need to juggle between length of beer line and pressure till it works for you.

The other pressure factor is related to carbonation. C02 dissolves into water (or beer) at a certain level which is dependent on a combination of pressure and temperature. Its usually expressed as "volumes" of dissolved C02. So if you dissolve 1 litre of C02 into one litre of water, you get 1 "volume" of C02. So when someone says an english ale is carbonated at 1.5-2 volumes... thats what they are talking about, the amount of C02 in solution. If a Hefeweizen is carbonated at 4 volumes, thats twice as much C02 in every litre.

Now, you can force as much C02 into a water solution as you like.... all you have to do is put the pressure of gas up high enough and the C02 will dissolve into the liquid at the gas liquid boundary. But how the C02 dissolves is also dependent on temperature... the colder it is, the easier the liquid holds the gas in solution. Eventually, if the pressure and the temperature stay the same, the system will come to equilibrium, and no more C02 will dissolve unless you increase the pressure or decrease the temperature.

So.... if you make your beer cold... you need to apply less gas pressure to get a given amount of C02 to dissolve into the beer. If its warmer, you need more pressure to get the same amount dissolved.

Now it turns out that at around the temperature of your average beer fridge (lets call it 4C) the amount of pressure you need to get a nice average carbonation for an ale or a lager(2.5 volumes), is about 12psi.... so there is no problem at all with one of the party kegs. They hold 12psi easily. For a Hefe at 4 volumes at 4C the pressure needed is 27psi... so thats right on teh border that the kegs normally hold before the pressure relief goes off. If yours is holding 37psi, you are there easily.

So, inherently, there is no problem at all with carbonating one of these things right up to and including the really fizzy wheats and belgians... you would need to drop the pressure right back when you served them or it would come out at 100mph and you would have nothing but foam... but you could cut the pressure on the night and the beer isn't going to the go flat in any great hurry. you would get through your party no worries.

All clear and all good so far? ..... OK, now comes the bit that makes it not work so well. Lets say you do want to naturally carbonate rather than force it. It should be all good shouldn't it?? The keg holds plenty of pressure for the job right? Well yes it does - at 4C but if you are naturally carbonating, things aren't going to be at 4C, If the yeast is going to work to carbonate your beer, they are going to be a LOT warmer. So much warmer, that you wont be able to get all the C02 you need in your beer, to dissolve at pressures less than the safety relief valve trigger. Lets try an example:

You have a nice lager that you'd like to carbonate to 3 volumes of C02. You have primed your keg and you are going to leave it in your spare room at a nice constant 17C to carb up. So whats going to happen?

At 17C you need 31.9 psi to get 3 volumes of C02 to dissolve in beer... your keg is OK, but the average one started to vent gas at 25psi - and thats only enough pressure (at 17) to carbonate to about 2.5Volumes. any extra gas the yeast produces doesn't go into making beer fizzy.... it just goes out the relief valve. If by chance on Tuesday afternoon the temperature goes up to 19, then any gas over 2.4 is out of there ... and so on. At 17C you would need to have 50psi to get a 4 volume hefe carbed up. And nobodies plastic keg is holding 50psi in.

You could do it.... use a lager yeast and condition your beer at 10C, your keg at 37psi would hold in 4 volumes, but most wouldn't get better than 3 ish even at that low temp. And re-pitching lager yeast just to get your beer fizzy is a bit of a pain.

You could, as you said, naturally carb the beer as far as it would go, then chill it down to 4C and just top up the fizz with your sodastream. That would work just fine. But extra sugar for priming wont help at all; you could put a whole other kg of sugar in there for priming, and its not going to do a damn thing to the carbonation... just a bit of extra C02 for the greenhouse and really strong beer :)

For my effort to reward satisfaction levels, I'd just force carb the whole damn thing with the soda stream. Set it to the right pressure for the carbonation level you want, and shake the crap out of it till gas stops coming through your regulator. No more C02 is dissolving and so it has reached equilibrium and its done. Then when you want to serve it, just dial the pressure back till it pours well.

Hope that makes a bit of sense and helps clarify a couple of things for you. If not - sorry, I gave it a go.

Cheers

Thirsty
 
Good explanation, TB.

My reg-free setup doesn't allow me to force carbonate, but I've had pretty good results so far with priming. I have a witbier at the moment that is carbed just right.

I have a couple of party kegs of dark lager sitting at 12c. I'll see how much extra fizz that gets me.

I've kept a bottle of S-189 slurry, and I think I'll add a little of this to future kegs for 'cool conditioning'.
 
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