Old-time brewing.... according to the BBC

[TimT]

Yep. I definitely wouldn't want to put old time brewers down. They would have had a lot of knowledge - thousands of years worth of knowledge in fact - the only problem being, a lot of that knowledge would either have been shared orally and never written down (the old recipes don't give too much specific information) or have kept that knowledge to themselves.

 

[TimT]

BBC script writers, on the other hand...

 

[Dave70]

I recognize 'Ruth'and 'Peter' from previous period pieces in the same vein, Victorian Farm and Edwardian Farm, which I enjoyed. Their last 'Victorian' crack at brewing saw the boys enlist Ruths bed pan as a mash tun and a hessian sack as a wort filter. So - yeah..
This one does seem to have a touch of Old Sydney Town about it though.

I don't mind a bit of quaint BBC style programming though.

 

[TimT]

Bed pan as mash tun?

I was thinking of using a bucket I found in the laundry as a fermenter recently.
"I wouldn't," said the Baron when I mentioned it to her.
"Why not?"
"It's had cat poo in it."
"Oh...."

 

[evildrakey]

The trouble is they only had a basic understanding of microbiology. The yeast they used would be a mixed population with lots of different strains of yeast and bacteria, with no control over what was in there. Very easy for it to go bad if you keep using it over and over. Sourdough bread works the same way but the fermentation is faster so less chance of going off. I think it would have been safer to use wild yeast, rather than some sludge that could be anything.

Actually, there was an edict in Tudor Times (and earlier) that Brewers and Bakers had to provide good and fresh Balm when asked. They were all sharing (and selecting for) good balm with each other. So it's a very basic version of yeast breeding and strain selection...

 

[evildrakey]

Water couldn't be drunk because of the bacteria, but alcohol 'protects from bacteria'. (I wish I could have told that to my - now infected - juniper porter before I bottled it).
- In order to make beer, you have to catch a 'wild bacteria'. Yikes!
- Apparently malted barley was turned into beer by putting it in a pot with water and boiling it up. Actually, this one seemed a reasonable assumption - especially if you were brewing in very large amounts, since the liquid would only heat very gradually and would take the mash through all the important stages - 55 degrees - 68 degrees celsius - 77 degrees celsius - boiling, and in the process the bacteria would surely be zapped out of existence.
- The wort from the first boil made the strong beer, from the second boil the regular beer. (I already knew this one.)
- Unfortunately, thanks to the magic of editing, viewers would have walked away with the impression that straight after you pour off the boiling wort from the grain you add yeast to it. Eeesh!

Water couldn't be drunk because of the bacteria, but alcohol 'protects from bacteria'. (I wish I could have told that to my - now infected - juniper porter before I bottled it).

Yeah, terribad... There was some understanding that beer and ale was safe to drink - would have been boiling the water rather than alcohol protection. Especially small ales from a 3rd run that are about 0.5%alc and weak as piss...

- In order to make beer, you have to catch a 'wild bacteria'. Yikes!

:facepalm:

- Apparently malted barley was turned into beer by putting it in a pot with water and boiling it up. Actually, this one seemed a reasonable assumption - especially if you were brewing in very large amounts, since the liquid would only heat very gradually and would take the mash through all the important stages - 55 degrees - 68 degrees celsius - 77 degrees celsius - boiling, and in the process the bacteria would surely be zapped out of existence.

There are a couple of methods of controlling mash temp in medieval times known to be used. One was using your elbow to test warmth (lol). The other is intriguing. It was a method of pouring boiling water over malt with a ladle, then saying several Hail Mary's and PaterNoster's adding ladles of boiling and cold water and repeating. Was always thought to be weird bunkum until 2 reenactors in the US tried it and found it came out to perfect mashing temp...

- The wort from the first boil made the strong beer, from the second boil the regular beer. (I already knew this one.)

Yep. And sometimes 3rd runs too - shudder.

- Unfortunately, thanks to the magic of editing, viewers would have walked away with the impression that straight after you pour off the boiling wort from the grain you add yeast to it. Eeesh!

I think a lot of us have made that mistake once

 

[TimT]

There are a couple of methods of controlling mash temp in medieval times known to be used. One was using your elbow to test warmth (lol). The other is intriguing. It was a method of pouring boiling water over malt with a ladle, then saying several Hail Mary's and PaterNoster's adding ladles of boiling and cold water and repeating. Was always thought to be weird bunkum until 2 reenactors in the US tried it and found it came out to perfect mashing temp...

Love it! Not sure I'll be trying it round here - might strike some as idolatry but I think my thermometer does a pretty good job I've also heard directions like 'the water is ready when it is just cool enough so you can hold your finger in it', or just 'set it so far away from the fire'.

 

[Airgead]

The other temp control method is still apparently used by moonshiners - when you can see your reflection in the water it has cooled enough.

Never tried it but sounds plausible. Would be obscured by steam, surface churn etc if the water was too hot.

 

[TimT]

Yes it makes sense. There's a stage before simmering when there's a lot of bubbles.

I have one old cookbook - Martha Washington's, no less, wife of the first president of the US - that refers to the stage before simmering as 'simpering'!

 

[Bribie G]

This show is a perfect example of how, when something you know about is presented in the media, it soon becomes obvious that they have missed the point totally.

The reason beer was a safe drink was that it got boiled. However it contained a toxic substance, alcohol. European and several West Asian populations dealt with this via a genetic mutation that furnished us with the Alcohol Dehydrogenase enzyme so we could drink the stuff without staggering red-faced around Tokyo after two beers hunting for a karaoke bar.

Other populations such as East and South Asia, who lack Alcohol Dehydrogenase, came up with something completely different as a boiled safe drink.

Tea.

 

[hsb]

I didn't watch the show - passed on all those BBC - Edwardian Farm etc.. historical reality shows. Life is far too short :lol:

Did they make the beer with hops? Surely hops are a huge factor in the safe drinking water aspect of beer.

I'd also assume it was pretty weak beer? Cheaper to make and easier to drink for breakfast? Don't want the farmhands plastered by lunchtime?

Ignorance about yeast seems pretty reasonable given they had no idea it existed at the time, just that there was something about the previous beers and barrels and so they just developed practices around transferring yeast from good beers, albeit without knowing how it was happening.

Homebrewing on TV is normally either way too lightweight/free and easy with the facts or too far the other way/commercial - like the Dogfish Brewing show, or like that awful Neil Morrissey sells beer to Tescos one. More about what the label looks like than how the beer is made.

Homebrewing needs a Michael Jackson for our times, can't say I've ever seen a TV show on homebrewing that felt that relevant. Sounds like this one was a little better/more craft oriented.

Can't say the life of Tudors has ever gripped me in the way it seems to some people, horrible diseases, grim living, cricket not even invented, bad haircuts, sounds awful.

 

[TimT]

No, they knew about yeast: the word has been in English ever since it became a separate language in the Germanic language family. They also had another word, 'barm', an old word for yeast.

My understanding is that though some beers were hopped, hops were nowhere near as ubiquitous as today. Common bittering agents (that also preserved in a similar manner to hops) were wormwood and juniper.

They must have had a range of beers, from weak to full strength; the beer they made on the show had elderflowers as a flavouring (traditional wine flavouring too), and honey (which would have lifted the strength of the beer, too).

 

[yankinoz]

I once came across some notes on a household budget at Henry VIII's court. One of the ladies in waiting had a daily allowance of four gallons of beer. Gallons were still an imprecise measure, and it was "small beer," but it's still a lot of fluid.

Lady in waiting, what she was waiting for, why she was still waiting: the possibilities are endless.

There are modern parallels to that level of consumption. A rash of 1960s deaths of beer drinkers in Montreal was eventually blamed on a foam-preserving additive that contained trace amounts of cobalt and was previously thought safe. The brand was Dow, which soon went out of business. As I recall the deceased all consumed 2 gallons or more a day, and some of them four.

 

[Airgead]

My understanding is that though some beers were hopped, hops were nowhere near as ubiquitous as today. Common bittering agents (that also preserved in a similar manner to hops) were wormwood and juniper.

Depends where you were... Beers in Europe were hopped from very early on. The earliest record is 736 but it wasn't widespread till the 1400s. Even then it depended where you were and what the local tax system was (some places taxed hops some didn't).

In England, gruit - the herb mix that was used to flavour beer before hops, was a church monopoly. It was therefore illegal to use hops in beer because it broke the church's monopoly. It wasn't until Henry VIII dissolved the monasteries and broke with Rome in the mid 1500s that hops were able to be used in English beers.

Gruit at various times and places contained - Yarrow, bog myrtle, wormwood, juniper, pine, henbane, sweet gyle....

Back then Ale was brewed with gruit and beer was brewed with hops.

Cheers
Dave