Nsw Xmas In July 2006 Case Consumption

[Trent]

PoMo's Bitter

I approached this beer with trepidation, as Pomo has already warned of it, but the initial aroma didnt seem so bad, a little malt with a mild caramel, and a fairly strong fruity smell I first mistook for esters. Second sniff revealed the "esters" to be a sweet grapelike aroma, almost like a beer mixed with a dry white wine, or even a cider (I guess). I couldnt detect any hops under this aroma, it was too dominant. The beer looked the part, a deep amber colour, very clear, with a low white head that didnt last long, and low carbonation. On first taste, I found an almost astringent (probably more than almost) dryness, with a kinda sour grape flavour, it could be ciderlike, I havent had cider in years. It is a very strange flavour to pick, but I would have to describe it as winy, or vinous. Seems to be a medium/high bitterness, but it could be the astingency. Astringency gave it a very thin mouthfeel, it had a low carbonation, yet my mouth was tingling like it was carbonic bite.
Anyway, I can only assume the astingency has come from either oversparging, or (as you mentioned mashing difficulties in your warning) too fine a crush, extracting tannins from shredded husk. the winy or vinous flavour that seems to be dominant (though tames as you drink more of it) could be from either too much sugar, but I think it is AG, so could it possibly be oxidation, or, not sure that I even believe this is a real thing or not, Hot Side Aeration? Was it splashed at racking, or splahed alot when hot, to relieve a stuck sparge? My apologies if these theories dont ring true, it is the best I can come up with - I am still a bit of a novice at picking these faults! Maybe Berp will be able to help you, I havent gotten to the "doctored beer" part of the BJCP yet.
I feel quite sure, PoMo that you consistently make good beers, may I lend my condolences on the fact that the one you made with a fault ended up in the case swap. I hope that my "diagnosis" helps prevent this kinda thing for you in the future.
All the best
Trent
PS None of these traits seemed to diminish as the beer warmed, and I am sorry to say it didnt all end up in my liver
EDIT - I gave it 16/50, probably shoulda given it higher, over 21 to put it into "misses the mark on style/or minor flaws. Ya hit the style well, just them flaws....

 

[Weizguy]

PostModern Bitta:

I tasted most of the off-flavours that Trent did.
I also tasted the malt and some hop flavour. This was followed by the esters and the dryness and some winey-ness.

It reminds me of the flavour of the Wyeast ESB yeast. I shall compare it to a Fuller's London Pride clone I made, except your beer didn't taste of stale hop. I had to double-think myself out this comparison, but I was still reminded by the estery, slightly tart dryness.

Definitely not a contamination, but not a flavour I liked; but it mostly went away as the beer warmed.

I'm not giving marks to the case beers, so I'll suggest four things instead.
1/ Maybe it's the yeast that provides these flavours.
2/ Maybe mash a little higher and add a little more crystal malt next time you brew for me :lol:
3/ Be careful of sparging too much.
4/ Beware of oxidation. It wasn't an age oxidation character in this beer, as far as I'm concerned

I'm not sure if these comments ring true for you, but I'm happy to taste another, next time U make it.

These comments come 24 hours after I tasted the beer, so pls adjust my credibility factor accordingly. Last night was a rest night, with v little activity apart from the casual consumption of the bottle of PoMo Bitter, followed by 3 middies of beer (Stephen's bitter, Stephen's Cornish amber, my Vienna Wheat).

Here's one for Berp to suss out: was it the yeast or the method that gave these flavours.

Seth out

 

[Trent]

Seth
If it was the yeast, that would explain alot. I seem very sensitive (wow, I am sensitive after all!) to 1968 yeast flavours, there was a beer in the xmas case at xmas that gave me the same flavours I get from 1968, and it was the same yeast as PoMo used in this one I think. I didnt taste the usual flavours I get in the Wyeast though, but I think I asked then if it was the Whitelabs equivalent. Looking forward to reading Berps review
Trent

 

[PostModern]

It's probably not the yeast. I brewed with WLP023 and used the top cropping from the Bitter batch to brew an AG Porter which (I hardly dare to admit here) is quite nice I did use 1968 in the Xmas case, tho. Might be a bad run of beers from Iron Wolf for you, Trent

Oversparging... yeah, maybe, but not likely. I think the problem may have been the mystical HSA, as during the sparge, the unsoldered components of my manifold came apart while I was trying to clear a blockage. This was a part mash in a six-pack esky. I used as much grain as I normally do (3Kg) and sparged enough to fill two large pots to boil on my stove, about 15L... However, the usual hydrometer tasting I took at racking was quite normal and the beer tasted nice.

As I don't bottle any more, I'm guessing I did something wrong at bottling. Either not rinsing the percarbonate out of the bottling bucket well enough... really I don't know. I've brewed 3 batches in the same fermenters since this batch and have not experienced anything else like it. Bah.

I've tasted a few other beers from the case, will post reviews when I don't feel quite so stupid and emabarassed

 

[stephen]

PostModern Bitta:

I tasted most of the off-flavours that Trent did.
I also tasted the malt and some hop flavour. This was followed by the esters and the dryness and some winey-ness.

It reminds me of the flavour of the Wyeast ESB yeast. I shall compare it to a Fuller's London Pride clone I made, except your beer didn't taste of stale hop. I had to double-think myself out this comparison, but I was still reminded by the estery, slightly tart dryness.

Definitely not a contamination, but not a flavour I liked; but it mostly went away as the beer warmed.

I'm not giving marks to the case beers, so I'll suggest four things instead.
1/ Maybe it's the yeast that provides these flavours.
2/ Maybe mash a little higher and add a little more crystal malt next time you brew for me :lol:
3/ Be careful of sparging too much.
4/ Beware of oxidation. It wasn't an age oxidation character in this beer, as far as I'm concerned

I'm not sure if these comments ring true for you, but I'm happy to taste another, next time U make it.

These comments come 24 hours after I tasted the beer, so pls adjust my credibility factor accordingly. Last night was a rest night, with v little activity apart from the casual consumption of the bottle of PoMo Bitter, followed by 3 middies of beer (Stephen's bitter, Stephen's Cornish amber, my Vienna Wheat).

Here's one for Berp to suss out: was it the yeast or the method that gave these flavours.

Seth out

Seth

How was the Cornish Amber? Me thinks It may have a bit too much diacetyl which can be a bit of a detraction from what I was intending for the brew.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I like honest feedback on all my brews - good or bad - as long as it is honest.

Steve

 

[Trent]

PoMo
Dont feel stupid, or embarrassed, its just one of them things that happens, and if ya learn from it, then it is a good thing. Just dont do it to us again!
Trent

 

[PostModern]

When I find out what caused it, I'll make sure never to do it again, promise

Reviews to follow shortly.

 

[Trent]

Josh's Pilsner

Firm, slightly grainy malt aroma with spicy hops. Couldnt detect any sulfur, and there was a low note of DMS. There was also alot of yeast aroma showing through. It was a mid yellow in colour, with a dense frothy head that was quite large when poured, and persisted due to high carbonation. I found it to be reasonably bitter, yet also slightly sweet, especially in the finish, with some tingling from carbonic bite. The hop flavour is med/high, and the yeast flavour is, again, quite prominent on my palate. The bitterness lingers into the aftertaste. It has a medium body, with a high level of carbonation, low alcohol warmth with a slight creaminess due to the sweetness. No astringency, and a reasonable carbonice bite.
Overall, I found it to be a nice beer, though for mine it was a little too sweet, and the yeast flavour was too prevalent, but I am notorious for picking up on yeast flavours, so take that comment with a grain of salt. I just read the recipe, and there is a surprising amount of bitterness and hop flavour, considering it is FWH only. Before I knew what it was, I found it to be almost a cross between a Bohemian and German Pils, having the bitterness (lingering bitterness, and not super smooth) and carbonation of a German pils, and the body/maltiness of a Bohemian. I would suggest (and I am often wrong) to use half of your finishing hops as FWH, and then add a separate bittering addition, and your finishing additions to smooth out the overall bitterness. My biggest complaint was with the yeast flavour, but that could be just my palate (see above)
I gave this beer a 36/50
All the best
Trent

 

[PostModern]

LINZ'S GRUMPY SCOT STAG

With all the warnings about this bottle I approached it with caution. When Linz kindly dropped the case at my place on Friday, he told me what Barry Cranston did to serve this beer, so I copied the method. In the end, I managed to get one nice clean pint out of it, with losses along the way. What I did was to chill the beer in the coldest part of the fridge for 24 hours. I chilled my big glass beer jug and another jug. So a day after the bottle was chilled, I poured it into the chilled jugs very slowly, and the overflow into a pint glass. As the foam subsided, I moved poured all the jugs into the big one, poured a half pint to sample straight away and put what was left in the jug into the fridge.

The initial aroma was of apples, sort of. Something familiar and fruity anyway. Maybe apples and pears or apples and passionfruit. No hop aroma, hint of caramel malt. This fruitiness was not so evident in the settled beer. A couple hours later, I decanted from the jug into a pint glass. By then all the gas had disipated, so I was left with a dark brown coloured flat ale with a moderate caramel aroma and all of the yeast in the jug. Quite nice actually. Bitterness was low, as I would expect of a scotch ale, there was a trace of sourness there, slightly winey, slightly fresh grape, a reasonable amount of caramel. The mouthfeel was slightly thin, flat (of course )... perhaps the brew was overattenuated.

It seems to me that the wort was a reasonable one for the style but that perhaps fermentation had stalled before bottling. Once in the bottle it took off again, consuming the tougher sugars which left the brew thin, to my palate. As I told Linz on Friday, some time ago, some friends and I split a culture of WLP002, and we all brewed like madmen with it. Bottling away about 3-4 batches each. All the 10 beers we brewed with it came out like this one, gushing out of the bottle. At the time, we put the high FG down to the low attenuation expected from the strain, but in hindsight, we think we made a dodgy starter, either contaminating or mutating the yeast.

 

[PostModern]

STICKLER'S BITTER

First words: I really liked this beer. There was a nice big hit of American hop aroma as soon as I opened the bottle. Amarillo? The colour was a gorgeous golden-straw colour with a hint of red. Brilliant clarity. The bitterness was restrained, I'd prefer a few more IBUs in there, but the bitterness was noticeable and in good balance with the malt bill. There is a hint of fruit from the yeast in there but over all it was a very clean flavour and very refreshing. A more than slight, but not over the top hint of sherbet in the aftertaste. I would have enjoyed a bit more carbonaton, but I'm an 8psi kegger The low carbonation made it very easy to drink. It was a bit thin for my liking but only a bit, this would make for an excellent session ale. I was sad when I finished the glass.

Thanks Stickler. Really enjoyed this.

 

[PostModern]

THOMMO'S APA

I could detect no aroma in this beer. As in almost nothing. Maybe my nose was desensitised by Stickler's hoppy beer. There was a waft of diacetyl as it warmed. The beer was a nice and clear with a deep rich amber colour. The flavour was quite restrained, bit of crystal malt with diacetyl dominating. Was this brew fermented exceptionally cool? The carbonation was nice and lively, and a nice crystal thickness without being at all syrupy. I think for an APA is was very much underhopped. I would have added more hops at the start, middle and end of the boil. I'd be looking to trace the source of the diacetyl, as I think with less of it the beer's other characters stand out.

 

[Doc]

TD's Boston Lager

To be honest up front, I shouldn't really be trying to eval beers after drinking my Hop Whompus, because even my Ordinary Bitter tastes like water after the HW.

Pours well, nice carbonation, with minimal head. Not a lot of aroma, and a nice deep golden colour.
If it wasn't labelled a lager I could have easily mistaken it for an ale. Good body, nice residual sweetness, low bitterness.
Great easy drinking beer.

Beers,
Doc

 

[shmick]

My appologies to all re the lack of reviews - I've just been too busy

I've downed a few with only breif notes so they are not particularly detailed reviews.
They are not judged to style - only to my own warped sense of personal preference.

Keith's Choc Porter (last Fri night) - Poured flat with no head what so ever. On closer inspection carbonation was there and had a very slight bite right to the end. Not sure what level of carb was intended but it works quite well at this level. Colour black with nice ruby highlights. Surprisingly intense choc/coffee malt in the mouth with a little lasting sweetness - very smooth. Slight hop flavours hiding in the background where they should be. I really liked this one for the luscious flavours and the absence of burnt/charcoal astringency which can sometimes overpower porters. Well done Keith

Trent's IIPA - I had big hopes for this one and it didn't disappoint. A solid malt base supporting a huge whack of earthy hops. Bitterness and aroma is right up there and lingers for quite a while without being harsh. Soft warming alcohol present in the background but holds a head well. Loved it - my favourite so far.

n00ch's dark mild - Dark, subtle and well balanced flavours. A little thin bodied for my tastes but it hangs together pretty well - If the kidneys held out you could drink it all night. Overall pretty good for such a low alcohol beer. My personal preference would be to push up the crystal a little to fill it out and add a slightly sweet ending.

PoL's Dortmund lager - Slightly sweet malt with wonderful noble hop aroma. Bitterness was good but maybe a tad low - again my personal prefernece. It had a slight yeasty/fruity/funky after taste that was a little disturbing - sort of reminded me of a wheat beer (notes?). I suspect it may need a little more cold conditioning (I only left it 4 days in the fridge). I usually find my bottle conditioned lagers need a good 4 - 6wks extra conditioning after bottling to crisp up. They can be a bit soapy otherwise.
This was one of the first ones I opened so maybe somebody else can give a more accurate report later on.

Barry's Robust Porter - I would have to agree with some of the other evaluations posted already. A supurbly crafted porter by all accounts but just a touch too toasty for my personal tastes.

Nifty's Calif common - First one of these I've tasted in the flesh (as opposed to tasting in a book review) so I have nothing to compare it to. Definitely different but in a good way. Smooth, malty & slightly fruity. Underlying bitterness is firm but good and the hop flavours come through well. Very enjoyable.

Linz's very grumpy Scottish stag - Huge carbonation bite with a very dry malt finish (after I beat it's head back with a large stick). However I am lucky enough to have an extra one due to my transporting efforts which I'll treat with a little more care and get back to you.

Stephen's Special bitter - Beautifully clear flavoursome bitter. Well balanced malt / hops. Slight metallic/yeasty aftertaste. Initially a little overcarbed resulting in almost lagerlike attributes but upon slight warming and settling it was quite enjoyable. Good stuff Stephen.

That's all for now

 

[T.D.]

Hi all. I got back from overseas this morning. I have put the recipe for my Boston Lager up in the recipes section of the site. The only problem is the calculations/estimations of IBUs, gravities and colour are not the same as what Beersmith came up with. So, the recipe is exactly as it appears in the database, but with the following stats according to Beersmith:

OG: 1.052
FG: 1.009
Colour: 14.3
IBU: 36.3

And just a few more little details that may be helpful...

Mash temp was 65degC
No chiller method was used
Yeast was in fact W34/70 but is not available in the recipe database


I am gearing up to get stuck into these beers now! I have Linz's brew in the fridge already. The Jetlag's starting to kick in so I'm not sure if I'll crack it tonight - I might fall asleep after the first sip!

Cheers, and thanks for the comments on my entry. :beer:

 

[Stickler]

Thanks PoMo for the kind review, I think the aroma that you got upon opening would have been the Cascade that I added. The kit I used as a base was a Morgans IPA and I haven't used one before and I'm not sure if it has Amarillo in it.

I tried a few more over the weekend and took a few more notes this time:

Schmick's ESB - Had a dark amber/caramel colour which was nice. No head on this one - could be my beer glasses, I gave up giving them any special treatment ages ago.
Had a tough time getting any aroma for a while, probably started off a bit cold. As it warmed up a bit I was getting a sweet rich/alcoholy nose and after a while I think I pinpointed it as dark dried fruits like raisins or prunes.
On tasting, again probably a bit cold to begin with and I couldn't find anything standing out except for a lingering bitterness on my back palate. However I really liked it but couldn't work out what flavours I was getting. My brother was tasting with me and after a while he came up with "a little soapy"? but didn't pick up on that myself.
Anyway we both enjoyed it despite being a little confounded by it - but be assured that is because of our lack of tasting experience not the beer. Thanks Schmick.

P.O.L's Dortmunder Export - Had no idea what to expect of this - we had never heard of this style before. I opened this on Friday and it had been in my fridge for a week. Perhaps I should have heeded P.O.L's advice and given it a while longer cos when I opened it it started foaming out the top. After racing it to the kitchen sink and putting it there it continued to slowly foam out for about 10 mins. I'd never seen a beer do that before and even thought about videoing it and posting it. We still managed to get a good glass full each though.
The appearance was alot like Schmick's, Dark honey/amber and again very little head.
It had a really sweet aroma with that candied banana, and hints of clove just like those European wheat beers.
It tasted nice and rich and was really well balanced. The flavours really backed up the aromas and I was pretty much tasting what I had smelled. We really enjoyed it and were quite impressed.
Now to put my neck out - is this a wheat beer?, it really reminded me of some of the beers I had when I was in France. Thanks P.O.L.

Keith's ******* Chocolate Porter - Almost black appearance, with a really thin tan head.
HUGE dark chocolate/coffee aroma, absolutely unmistakeable - which is nice for me as I always have trouble pinpointing smells. My brain recognises them but I have a hard time putting them into words.
Wow this is a thick, rich beer - no shortage of flavour here. Again - alot like the smell it was very chocolatey and coffeeish. With this beer I don't think I was in the best tasting mood and towards the end of the longneck started to find the residual sweetness a little cloying. But I had had a huge night on Fri (tasted this on Sun) and I don't think I had fully recovered by the stage I cracked it open. I have learnt from that mistake. Thank you Keith.

Now that I've taken some notes on the beers, I am feeling encouraged about doing it some more, it's really good fun. For those of you who haven't tried - give it a go and I highly recommend having someone with you who's interested in giving it a go too, it helped me out a bit. I haven't done it yet but I want to try and do a blind tasting with some of these - just gotta organise myself. When I used to work with wine I found it was the only true way to taste without any bias. Amazing how some of the "experts" become a little introspective when they don't know what they're tasting. Enough of my rambling. THanks again for the great beers.

Sticko

 

[shmick]

Thanks for the comments Stickler - don't worry about your glasses, the ESB was intentionally carbed on the low side.
It was also brewed with S-04 yeast which maybe the soapy taste - some people are sensitive to it.

Just a note for anybody else trying it - I would recommend allowing it to warm slightly (7-8degC) before drinking.

It is primarily a malt driven strong ale and as such is a bit of a balancing act between bitterness and malt sweetness. Too cold and it becomes flavourless and overbitter (as Stickler described), too warm and it is cloyingly sweet. Somewhere in the middle it seems to work ok. Higher carbonation levels tend to cause harsh flavours also hence it is not very lively.

This one started life as a Fuller's ESB clone but was toned down bit for the case swap. My previous efforts were hopped almost to nose bleed level which some people aren't keen on.
I only got to taste 1 very green stubby of this one before the swap so I don't know how it's maturing.
Any feedback is welcome.

 

[Gough]

Dunno 'bout nosebleed Shmick :lol: It wasn't that full on mate!

Just a headsup re: my contribution, the 'Pogue Mahone' Dry Irish Stout. After 25 days in the bottle, unless you've been keeping it at really cold temps, it should now be pretty well carbed up so drink at will Thanks for waiting and letting it carb up...

Shawn.

 

[PostModern]

Thanks PoMo for the kind review, I think the aroma that you got upon opening would have been the Cascade that I added. The kit I used as a base was a Morgans IPA and I haven't used one before and I'm not sure if it has Amarillo in it.

Impressive beer. I couldn't tell it was from a kit, not that I'm an AG snob. Some of my best beers were/are partmash plus kit.

 

[KoNG]

Dunno 'bout nosebleed Shmick :lol: It wasn't that full on mate!
Shawn.

Gough, I think you'll find he was referring to previous brews he has done of this style.
(edit: just re read it, maybe gough had tasted the other attempt..? either way i'll just shut up)


I echo what Shmick said regarding his ESB for my Beer......
DRINK IT @ about 8 - 10*C (any lower and it loses quite a bit of its MO profile)

EnJOy
KoNG

 

[Gough]

Dunno 'bout nosebleed Shmick :lol: It wasn't that full on mate!
Shawn.

Gough, I think you'll find he was referring to previous brews he has done of this style.



I echo what Shmick said regarding his ESB for my Beer......
DRINK IT @ about 8 - 10*C (any lower and it loses quite a bit of its MO profile)

EnJOy
KoNG

I was referring to previous versions of his brew as well Kong

Shawn.