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Non Lager Yeast For Grolsch

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bobsaget

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Hi, I found this recipe on the internet from somewhere:

Grolsch - 20 litres

Grolsch

Brewlength - 20 litres
Efficiency - 70%
Estimated OG - 1057
Estimated FG - 1012
ABV - 5.9%
90 minute mash
90 min boil

Grist

10 lb German 2 row pils
4 oz 10L crystal
2 oz German Munich

Hops
3/4 oz Northern Brewer 7.8% AA Bittering 60min
1/4 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker 3.1% AA Flavour 15min
1/2 oz Saaz 2.6% AA Flavour
1/2 oz Saaz 2.6% AA Aroma

Yeast

2042 Danish Lager in a 1L starter
Now that is all good but I don't have the means to brew at lager temps. So I was going to use another yeast but the question is which one? I have an alt beer brewing at the moment in which I used Wyeast 1007 German ale. I did some reading up on it and people suggested it could be used for a lager. It does ferment down fairly low - to 13C I have read (I find that hard to believe but thats what it says). I could manage 16C in my laundry fairly well if I used this yeast. I have only done a couple of AG batches and I really need to do a couple of lagers for summer!

My other question is could I rack the Grolsch straight onto the yeast cake of the alt beer even if it has been sitting there for 1 week since finishing fermenting?
The other yeast I have in the fridge are all ale yeast - US05, US04, Nothingham ale yeast, Wyeast 1968 London ESB. I could possibly also get my hands on some Californian lager yeast. So what do ya reckon??
 

Bribie G

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Bacchus Brewing here in Bris use S-23 and S-189 in their lagers at 19 degrees, and they come out very clean.
 

seemax

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US05 fermented cool is pretty clean, ditto for Nottingham

cal lager is also a good option

never used german ale sorry!
 

Guysmiley54

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Bacchus Brewing here in Bris use S-23 and S-189 in their lagers at 19 degrees, and they come out very clean.
How would you do that? I guess you wouldn't need a D-rest. What about lagering?
 

Bribie G

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After 10 days they trundle all their beers into a cold room at around zero for a further 10 days. The biggest Lager Brewery in Germany does exactly that fermenting regime although they use their own lager strain at 13 degrees (Forget the name of the brewery - TidalPete's got the book I read it in) B)
 

Guysmiley54

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After 10 days they trundle all their beers into a cold room at around zero for a further 10 days. The biggest Lager Brewery in Germany does exactly that fermenting regime although they use their own lager strain at 13 degrees (Forget the name of the brewery - TidalPete's got the book I read it in) B)
Pitch at 19 too I guess... I just got my first packet of S-189 and this sounds easier to manage than some of the more complicated lager brewing techniques I've read about. Do you personally use this yeast t those temps or would you recommend normal lagering temps? I have a temperature controlled fridge so I'm good there.

Cheers,

PS Like the new avatar pic :)
 

bobsaget

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Bacchus Brewing here in Bris use S-23 and S-189 in their lagers at 19 degrees, and they come out very clean.
I forgot to mention that I also have S-23. Do you think I could use S-23 and ferment it at 16 degrees and it would come out fairly lager like? I didn't think S-23 would ferment that high or it would make the beer taste fruity.
As for the option of racking this beer straight onto the alt beer yeast cake do you think that it would work if the alt beer has been sitting there for a week since it finished fermenting?
 

glassgrenade

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I just had a look at tasmanias temperatures, it said your having a top of 13C and a low of 2C. Do you have a room thats not heated? If i was getting temps like that i'd be brewing lagers all the time! S189 is a cracker yeast, very clean and crisp with good flocculation.
 

Guysmiley54

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I just had a look at tasmanias temperatures, it said your having a top of 13C and a low of 2C. Do you have a room thats not heated? If i was getting temps like that i'd be brewing lagers all the time! S189 is a cracker yeast, very clean and crisp with good flocculation.
Yep, it is freakin cold over here!! I'd be keen to see how a non-controlled lager would go in this weather. Fermentation is exothermic though and creates it's own heat. I love using a fridge to control that and keep everything consistant.

Have you taken an ambient temperature from your fermenter in this weather Bob?
 

Nick JD

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S-189 Recommended fermentation temperature: 9C 15C (48-59F) ideally 12C (53F)
 

bobsaget

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just had a look at tasmanias temperatures, it said your having a top of 13C and a low of 2C. Do you have a room thats not heated? If i was getting temps like that i'd be brewing lagers all the time! S189 is a cracker yeast, very clean and crisp with good flocculation.
Well yes there is that ;). My weather station is giving 8 degrees outside at the moment. But the problem is, as you kinda said, it can be 2 degrees at night which I would have thought was too low and then the (slight) possibility of it getting to 16 degrees on a nice day - which believe it or not can happen here! :lol: - But that is outside. Inside the only cool room in the house is the laundry which is a pretty constant 16 or 15 degrees in the winter.
I will have a look at the S189 yeast you recommended.
 

glassgrenade

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if it were me i'd get a dead fridge from the tip and put it outside. This will insulate the fermenter/s from the cool nights and kee the temps a little more stable. If you can get a freezer that would be even better, more insulation. Put a sheet over it so the missus doesn't see it. :ph34r:

The fridge/freezer will cost you nothing, so to test it out you could fill a fermenter with water and take temp reading over a few days. If its above 9 and below 15 you're good to go.

I'm fermenting in the garage at the moment, i'm loving not having a fridge. I can only do ales though as i'm in QLD and the garage here is a pretty constant 16-18C, i just bottled 300 stubbies and 60 longies, was a terrible terrible day. Non-firdge fermenting is great if you can get away with it!
 

bobsaget

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if it were me i'd get a dead fridge from the tip and put it outside. This will insulate the fermenter/s from the cool nights and kee the temps a little more stable. If you can get a freezer that would be even better, more insulation. Put a sheet over it so the missus doesn't see it. ph34r.gif

The fridge/freezer will cost you nothing, so to test it out you could fill a fermenter with water and take temp reading over a few days. If its above 9 and below 15 you're good to go.

I'm fermenting in the garage at the moment, i'm loving not having a fridge. I can only do ales though as i'm in QLD and the garage here is a pretty constant 16-18C, i just bottled 300 stubbies and 60 longies, was a terrible terrible day. Non-firdge fermenting is great if you can get away with it!
You know what that sounds like a really good idea! I hadn't thought of getting a fridge but not actually plugging it in, which as you point out probably wouldn't be necessary at this time of the year. One of the reasons I had resisted getting one was the excess power because we already run a million different appliances which are apparently necessary to run. But not actually running it takes care of that excuse. I better get brewing lagers before the temperature warms up, but then again if I got a working fridge I could just actually turn it on to fix that.
Cheers
 

waggastew

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PS. on the recipe side of things I would dry hop with a small amount of Perle hops (5-10g). It is an important part of the Grolsch aroma and flavour. I would maybe sub it for the Saaz
 

mje1980

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Hi, I found this recipe on the internet from somewhere:



Now that is all good but I don't have the means to brew at lager temps. So I was going to use another yeast but the question is which one? I have an alt beer brewing at the moment in which I used Wyeast 1007 German ale. I did some reading up on it and people suggested it could be used for a lager. It does ferment down fairly low - to 13C I have read (I find that hard to believe but thats what it says). I could manage 16C in my laundry fairly well if I used this yeast. I have only done a couple of AG batches and I really need to do a couple of lagers for summer!

My other question is could I rack the Grolsch straight onto the yeast cake of the alt beer even if it has been sitting there for 1 week since finishing fermenting?
The other yeast I have in the fridge are all ale yeast - US05, US04, Nothingham ale yeast, Wyeast 1968 London ESB. I could possibly also get my hands on some Californian lager yeast. So what do ya reckon??

I think the 1007 would be a great way to go. 16c with 1007 would give a good result. You've already got it going, why not use it?. I did a pseudo pils with 1007 a while ago and it worked great. Its very clean.
 

HoppingMad

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My vote is California Lager yeast. You can brew it 14-20 degrees and it comes up lovely.

Warm temp on lager yeasts can generally give you a 'mouse cage vb' ester that while some folks love, others get disappointed with. It won't come up as clean as a Cal Lager, just a warning. You will notice flavours you wouldn't get with the Cal Lager.

By all means give it a go and see if it is to your taste (fermenting the S-189 at warm as suggested), but I daresay you might be repeating the experiment with the Cal Lager yeast next time.

Cheers and all the best with it, :icon_cheers:

Hopper.

PS: From my research VB is fermented with a Danish Lager yeast (the same strain carlsberg use pretty much the danish lager strain from Wyeast) at around 17 degrees. So while folks say don't ferment lager yeasts warm it can be done and quite a few commercial breweries do this. Good luck!
 

Nick JD

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PS: From my research VB is fermented with a Danish Lager yeast (the same strain carlsberg use pretty much the danish lager strain from Wyeast) at around 17 degrees. So while folks say don't ferment lager yeasts warm it can be done and quite a few commercial breweries do this. Good luck!
I've fermented S189 at both 12C and 19C. There's a difference. Quite a large one.
 

bobsaget

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Hmm ok...I have to go back on something I said. I posted that my laundry was a constant 16 degrees and after I posted that I thought 'You know I have never actually reliably measured that'. I had assumed that from the little temperature sticker on the side of the fermenter which sits at 16 degrees when the heater is not on, and based on a guesstimation that the air felt 16C.
So last night I put a reliable thermometer in there and guess what - it has stayed at 11 degrees ever since. Perfect lager temperature. I will monitor it the rest of today but I doubt it will rise any more than 2 degrees if that, it is pretty well insulated in there. I put the thermometer in the brew itself and it was sitting at 13/12 degrees not 16 as the sticker says. What I might do for this batch now is split it in half and ferment one with S-23 and the other with Californian lager yeast and compare the results.

Apologies for that silly error!

PS. As you suggest Waggastew I might use the Pearle hops instead of the Saaz. Cheers
 

felten

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PS: From my research VB is fermented with a Danish Lager yeast (the same strain carlsberg use pretty much the danish lager strain from Wyeast) at around 17 degrees. So while folks say don't ferment lager yeasts warm it can be done and quite a few commercial breweries do this. Good luck!
Right, but they also ferment in 40+ ft high fermenters, the amount of pressure the yeast is under reduces ester production just like if they were fermenting cooler. Fermenting for macro breweries is also a bottleneck, the faster they can crank it out, the more money they can make.
 

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